Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

So forcing a child into a meltdown is protecting his dignity? My goodness

Well, he wasn't actively 'doing' any harm... but such behaviour can (and likely did) make other diners feel uncomfortable. And, as paying customers, their feelings need to taken into consideration.

As someone said at the beginning of this thread, it's likely the staff had recieved complaints, which is why they then approached the parents about the boy covering up.

Well yes, but making other diners feel uncomfortable isn't a reason to ask a disabled person to leave. People feel uncomfortable looking at my scars on my legs, should I be forced to cover them up in public? If so, why?

Deep breaths but I'm gonna come across as a right twat here I know. I was saying earlier that eating out now isn't an occasion anymore. Everyone in casual clothing no formal tablecloth or anything , just for context I am Asd I have nieces and nephews who are too, but when out having a meal I don't want to sit next to an unclothed person sorry, if your child isn't capable then stay at home

I literally just read the post where she had asked politely. Didn't see the deleted one as it had... been deleted. Obviously.
Not that I need to explain, though. My comment wasn't to you.

@Jumpingthruhoops well OP is unhappy that I'm disagreeing with her, so you know I assumed you included me in "posters"?

No it's not. It's much easier to leave burger king. Autism does not trump health and safety. Semn kids really can be taught societal norms. Why else do Sen schools invest so much in social and life skills if they can't?

Yes. I have a severely Sen child. And agree with the same sentiment as many other Sen parents here. The world won't bend for them, it's our job to help them navigate it.autism isn't an excuse. There are social stories for everything.

They didn't ask them to leave. They asked the parent if they could cover up their child who was naked from the waist up. Not something usually seen in a restaurant and would have attracted attention; attention the parents said they didn't want.

Unlike bare legs, which it's perfectly normal to see in public/restaurants/bars, whether they're covered in scars, spider veins... or fake tan!
Besides, it would be considered rude to stare at someone's legs. But you can't not see someone sitting at a table with a bare chest. Hope that answers your question.

I didn't say 'posters'. My comment to Tracker was:

'@EggsBenedick has asked you politely if you could stop this line of questioning. You should probably leave her alone now.'

So, see, absolutely no need for you to respond.

And if it were a girl child?

it would be ok to let her sit at the table bare chested rather than force a meltdown?

"Yes. I have a severely Sen child. And agree with the same sentiment as many other Sen parents here. The world won't bend for them, it's our job to help them navigate it.autism isn't an excuse. There are social stories for everything."

I have a severely disabled older teenager who will never confirm to societal norms. No amount of social stories that he doesn't understand, will change that.

Except that restaurants cannot place their own restrictions on its’ clientele if those restrictions break the law. And asking a party to leave because a child with a sensory disability has taken off a t shirt is potentially breaking the law. The fact that there are other establishments which could better accommodate him is irrelevant, because they’re all subject to the same law. And I’d like to know how these other places are more suitable, given that they’re also serving food. What it comes down to from some posters is that they don’t think it’s right that other diners should have to look at disability in ‘naice ’ places, but it’s OK to restrict disabled people to McDonalds and the like. This is MN so I don’t know why I’m surprised. The level of ignorance of ND conditions is stunning.

If she was eight, yes. What’s the difference ?

My heart hurts for the ND children of some of the parents on this thread. Imagine your mother - the person who is supposed to be on your side always - teaching you that there is no place in this world for someone like you, and you will always have to pretend to be something you're not because no one should be expected to take your difference/disability into account.

Agree. I find it really odd that even the parents of ND children are criticising. Clearly they’ve never heard the saying ‘once you’ve met one ND person, you’ve met one ND person’. The inference that if a disabled child’s behaviour doesn’t conform, they should stay at home is shocking.

Honestly I’m really torn as the mother of an autistic kid myself! I think she probably should have tried to get his top back on. Being dressed in a restaurant is a societal norm isn’t it? And our job is to try and help them navigate these things that won’t always be excused as they get older.

But that said I’m a bit of a hypocrite because the last time my kid was struggling in a restaurant similar to the description given he ended up putting his coat and hood up like a small Eskimo, and I did allow it because it wasn’t hurting anyone and he was about to lose it otherwise. So similar situation, but more acceptable fortunately because it wasn’t removing clothes!

I feel quite sorry for the mother, there’s nothing worse than feeling like you’re walking on eggshells preventing a meltdown and also knowing you’re being judged.

Urgh ok there is fitting in as a nt and then there's basic norms.

My son knows in a restaurant we use cutlery, if I ask him to do so at home he'll thump the table and scream. He can't talk.

I do know what I'm talking about. And simply I won't put myself or him in situations which would be stressful for either of us. Which was my original point, of start with a chain restaurant.

You know what you're talking about when it comes to your ND child. Not this child, nor anyone else's.

But I don’t understand why a chain restaurant would be the starting point, this was a buffet restaurant not fine dining

I don’t think it’s that black and white though. Sometimes in life there will be non negotiables and we need to help navigate those as best as possible.

i spent the best part of a year taking my son out wearing a dressing gown, he went to a christening wearing a pair of slippers. I’m not one for “yes you must conform to evrerything” but somethings yes he has to. We have been asked in a restaurant before to put his shoes back on before he walks around and that was a fair request.

personally for an 8 year old no top wouldn’t bother me (but I would have very much discouraged) but in a few years that will hit a point of being inappropriate behaviour so will need tackling in some way.

I'm sure the mum did try to get him to put a top on -- On many previous occasions.

The staff were a bit heavy handed not to recognise that.

Ok so when they're 36 ,male or female and they take their tops off in restaurants would it still be ok?

Because ND children don't stay children forever . They won't have their parents around forever. If they are able to navigate the world and can learn to do that in whatever way that suits them , the best thing their parents can do is to support and teach them doing exactly that. For their own independence. For their own safety.

Don't feel sorry for them, their parents are fucking fantastic, straddling an exhausting line between managing their needs and helping them function in the world the best they can.

He came in wearing a tshirt and a jumper. So yes, she must've. Why did she bother though?

@Sweetheart7

you don't discipline a child because their disability causes them to be hyper sensitive to the feel of clothing!

from that
"Discrimination arising from disability occurs when a disabled person is treated unfavourably because of something connected with their disability and the unfavourable treatment cannot be justified....Treatment can be justified and will be lawful if it can be shown that it is intended to meet a legitimate objective in a fair, balanced and reasonable way. This means that a service provider must strike a careful balance between the negative impact of a provision on the disabled person and any lawful reason for applying it"

I think expecting customers to wear sufficient clothes in a restaurant can very easily be justified!

There's nothing in there about 'can be justified as long as they are under 11' or 'can be justified as long as it's their top they are taking off not their underwear...'