Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

I was torn on doing a review or not.

I didn't think I would, but I wasn't completely sure.

I won't write a review either way.

No way leave a bad review. Hope the food was good.

What surprises me most about this thread is that so many respondents (not all) feel that it's such a clear cut situation and that one side is blatantly in the right and the other in the wrong....

It seems to me to be a perfect example of a conflict in which neither side is "to blame".

The family of the kid clearly wanted him (and themselves) to be able to enjoy a meal out in a restaurant. And yes, quite clearly, in a perfect world they should be able to go that, and I think all of us would want that for them.....

The restaurant clearly want to be able to consistently observe their own rules, whether that is for health and safety/hygiene reasons or public decency reasons. And again, who would blame them? I assume pretty much all of us agree that restaurants are allowed to have rules about clothing expectations, given that nobody is compelled to eat in a restaurant if its rules don't suit them.

So neither party are being wantonly cruel to the other. And yet their needs clash in this instance.....

This may be a really stupid question, but I am wondering about the legal situation here. Is there an obligation on the restaurant to make adjustments due to the boy having autism, just as they would need to provide a ramp for a wheelchair user (for example?)

I would not be ok with a teen child doing this- if they were smelly or had developing breasts for example

For a boy who is clearly pre pubescent and not may I would have no issue

I would not complain on behalf of the family unless it affected me or my meal, as I don't think it's fair to do this.

I can understand the mothers upset was but if she knew prior to the meal this would happen surely you would call and ok the semi nakedness with the place before arrival?

It wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. I don't know why it would bother other diners either? Just don't look over and get on with your meal. It's incredibly difficult for families with autistic children to do anything without getting judgement from other people when out and about and it only gets worse as your children get older. We can all just be a little kinder and live and let live.

What do you mean ‘something others should not be expected to have to see/hear/tolerate in public ? We’re way past the days when disability was hidden away and in an inclusive society we should be tolerant of those whose lives are clearly more difficult than our own and should be making it easier for them to integrate. In the great scheme of things it’s not something that will affect the lives of onlookers to anything like the extent to which the families and the disabled people themselves are affected.

*smelly not may

YABU to be bothered by a topless autistic child
YANBU to not want to put a review in - its their place to do so, not yours.

As a parent of autistic children who are now thriving at adulthood and at uni (after being in specialist school) I don’t need advice. Thanks though.

Who knows, maybe it's an improvement on what's previously happened with the child? Maybe he's also removed his trousers previously and this is better, then can now eat out because the little lad keeps his trousers on?

The point is that the parents were asked to do something and they refused. They refused to make their lives easier.
Yes the child may have had a meltdown, but then why would they not take the child out of the restaurant to calm them, then go back in.
Parenting autism is hard work but not teaching and reinforcing social expectations is not helping the child in the long run.
It’s hard being ND as an adult and at some point will all need to learn to behave in ways that feel uncomfortable and stressful to us.

This. It wouldn't bother me that the child had removed his top but it begs the question at what age will he have to accept that he has to stay dressed, and how are his parents going to make it happen. Also what if next week he decides he needs to remove his trousers and underwear ? I feel for the parents because there are no easy solutions.

It's quite likely that they've settled on drawing the line at pants and trousers off too tbh so I have no issues with this.

Probably cheeky to ask you to leave a review.

Children with autism or ADHD can get very hot or dislike the feeling of some fabrics. It doesn't mean he will
Always be like that either.

Also I would wonder how the family plan to deal with this long term? But in all fairness that is not the point of the thread or a subject I have any experience in

Everyone is hell bent on this being about the child being ND, as a restaurant owner I can assure you it is all to do with public liability and health and safety! It is not safe for anyone to be in a place serving hot food without some kind of covering on the majority of their body. In the same way we don't allow small children to run around or get up from the table without a parent to take them, I've seen hot drinks tipped over onto customers (usually by themselves not staff) and it's horrid to think if that kid had something like that happen.
So you need to stop focusing on the Equality Act etc and recognise it for what it is

Who could be the slightest bit bothered by the sight of a young child with no top on? 'Was he showing his genitals? I'd be far more upset by the interfering, self-satisfied fellow diners who considered it their prerogative to be offended by, or even take time to comment on, the sight of a child's bare skin. Shame on you.

In answer to your question, yes, there is an obligation on the restaurant to make adjustments for disability. It’s conferred by the Equality Act 2010. If, for example, they had tried to compel the parents to either clothe the boy or leave, that would be discrimination on the grounds of disability.

And this. The insurers would no doubt have a fit if they split something.

If you wish to read it that way then you do you.

Sometimes the best thing for everyone will still offend someone looking for an issue 🙃

rather than seeing it as what it is a compromise to keep everyone happy and hopefully safe and letting this little lad and his family enjoy a safe peaceful meal out without the staring eyes or risk of hot spillages onto a uncovered child.

So much unkindness of this thread. Some of it even justified by the "I'm autistic" "I have an autistic child" stuff that fails to recognise that no two autistic people are the same.

This is a family trying to have a meal out.

Something that will have been harder for them to access than most.

The child had nothing on his top half. A male, prepubertal child. That's all.

The mum said that asking him to put his top on would likely go badly. Why can't we just assume that she, his actual mother, was entirely right given her experience of her own child.

The mother reached out for an ally. Because we all know that when you are in a minority or marginalised, it takes allies to really make a difference.

@EggsBenedick you could have been an ally and you chose to post a bunch of whatifery instead. How different it could have been if you had just accepted that this was a family doing their best, knowing their child best, and trying to access something that many take for granted. Maybe you (and others) should examine the mismatch between your values and your actual actions.

So you ban women in mini skirts and spaghetti tops? You would not allow me in if I had shorts on? What about someone like me who is unstable on their feet? Would I be allowed in?

@EggsBenedick were you one of the diners looking at the child?

Shame on those staring at him!

I understand this. I completely understand being in the fence too.

A number of years ago I took my son's to a medium sized attraction aimed at kids. Under teen years. (Mine were 3 and 5 at the time). Twice a day there was a story time. At the afternoon show there was an autistic boy, I guess around 10. Unfortunately he had a tic of very loudly shouting C*nt. I'm not precious a out this word, but it also wasn't something I was 100% comfortable with around lots of young children. But, I also felt very strongly for the Mum who just wanted her son to experience what all the other kids were.

'RampantIvy
It wouldn't bother me to see an 8 year old boy without a top on. The only issue might be if he spilled hot food on himself'

^^
This and should the waiter/ess fall or trip and hot food or drinks fall on him.. Parents could potentially try sue the restaurant??

You forgot the word 'reasonable'. The adjustment needs to be reasonable. If the child's health and safety was at risk from him being unclothed then the adjustment is clearly unreasonable and it would be lawful to refuse it.