Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

So no one should be in a spaghetti strap top and shorts and flip flops as a patron in a restaurant then?

What makes not having your shirt on mean that you're more likely to get burnt?

Should we insist on long sleeves and trousers?

If the child is used to eating topless. I doubt he spills hot food on himself.

I really, really hope this mother isn't on mumsnet.

Wow! And this is .....mums net ( mums !! )
How vile a lot of these replies 🤬

Its a kid without his top on
No big deal - a big fuss by the restaurant over nothing !

But no Id not do a review either but I can understand the parents being at their wits end over people ( like those on MN ) not understanding the difficulties of a disabled child

You realise that the nature of Autism means that the person has difficulty in recognising what is and is not acceptable behaviour ? So bad manners doesn’t come into it - it’s a disability. So are you saying that disabled people whose behaviour doesn’t conform to social norms are not fit to eat with the rest of the population ?

A private restaurant absolutely cannot place its’ own restrictions on its’ clientele. It has to follow the law - in this case the Equality Act 2010. If this boys’ behaviour was even in part due to disability, asking them to leave is discrimination - pure and simple.

@Rosscameasdoody But where do you draw the line when it comes to behavior which is caused by disability, but is something others should not be expected to have to see/hear/tolerate in public ? (Just to clarify, I personally don’t count a shirtless 8 year old as intolerable and would not have been bothered)

Wouldn’t have cared re topless 8 year old esp if alternative is a meltdown from him.

Exactly.

What if the person is blind and spills food on themselves as a result. They shouldn't be in a restaurant where others are eating because it's really bad manners, blind or not?

I am aware. As a parent - I’d not put my child in that situation either - to prove a point. At some point all these autistic children will become adults and they need some form of boundary to function in society. Otherwise we are all doomed. Especially with the prevelance of diagnosis now.

When you have a child with neurodevelopmental difference you still have to help that child learn to fit in with the world.

It might take longer, it might involve some compromise, but I don't think we do children with additional needs any favours by expecting the world to accept them unconditionally - I think that is unrealistic and can lead to possible situations where they are less likely to be able to cope.

If your child is going into a new situation where they may struggle with the 'rules' of the situation then you prepare for this - whether it is because they are developmentally young or because of additional needs.

You can prepare children with social stories, practising at home and spending short amounts of time in situations that challenge them.

When there is a difficulty - as there was here with the child, then it is the parent's job to manage it - not expect others to.

I think one of them should have taken their child out and managed the situation.

Yes, it spoils your meal, but that is part of parenting. It would be the same if it was an adult and support worker - the support worker's job would involve discussing with someone what was acceptable in a social situation - which would be keeping clothes on - or leaving.

Autistic = bad manners?

Jesus fucking Christ!

What next, if people can't walk quick enough in front of you due to having had a stroke, then it's not acceptable to go out walking?

What exactly do you mean by "with the prevalence of diagnosis"

AIBU to be torn in this?

about what? I. what way did a shirtless 8 year old lad affect your lunch?

The restaurant staff appeared to be polite so i don't see why a bad review needs to be left
Even holiday resorts where you're in amd out of the pool have a shirts on in dining areas rule. As indeed do schools. I agree Mum amd dad should have tried to at least persuade him to put the shirt back on. But it wouldn't put me off my meal if he'd been topless either.

I completely agree with all of this!

Teaching your child to not take their clothes off in public is something that the majority of parents insist on, for the child’s own dignity and safety.

As I said up thread, some leeway should be given to children with additional needs but taking clothing off is absolutely not one of them.

If this was a little girl with breast buds we would be horrified that the parents thought that it was ok.

So hide him away so no-one will be offended by his disability ? It’s not down to the restaurant. There is something called the Equality Act which says you cannot discriminate against someone on the grounds of disability. If the restaurant were asking the parents to either put on the t shirt or leave, that’s exactly what they were doing.

This.

Id trust the mother to make the judgement call, knowing she knows best what her child needs and weighing up how to respond when outside. She’s right that a topless child harms nobody but him screaming would quickly be awful for everyone. You can’t apply the same expectations to the boy as any other 8 year old as he’s autistic.

yep

Well, this makes a change from the breastfeeding-in-restaurants goady threads.

It wouldn’t bother me but as the parent of an autistic child it would be a step too far for me to allow it for my child. Clothes of some sort when out is a line I do insist on (although he has been through a long phase of going out wearing his dressing gown in the past)

asking other people to complain was out of order though.

But if an autistic child is never taken out of the house as they may not conform to all social norms they aren’t going to learn how to function for adult life either.

Whilst at 8 it’s not a huge deal, at some point in the near future it will be. Enforcing boundaries is important because the longer an autistic child “controls” the parents, the harder it is for those parents to gain control when it’s needed.
so from that perspective it’s not a good idea to always take the easy route.