Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

I agree with you about a baby- no one would mind in that scenario. But clearly, looking at the replies on this thread, a decent percentage, possibly about 50% or a bit more, say they mind in this case.

I'm not sure how I feel. Clothes exist for several reasons- decency, social convention, but also because bodies sweat, produce grease, and other secretions, which react with bacteria, and clothes absorb a lot of that. So there are hygiene reasons too for why we wear clothes.

However, I don't understand enough about autism. What makes an autistic child want to remove their clothing like this? Is it explainable? What happens as they become adults- do they still do this at times or do they grow out if it/parents train them out of it? Why would it cause a meltdown if he had to put his t-shirt on?

Many small children do it- DS2 (4) would do it at home if we let him but we are training him about what is appropriate where at the minute.I understand that is very difficult for parents whose child is autistic, I'm just making the point that small children like to remove their clothes.

That's a really good view point, thank you!

This

I think it’s down to the restaurant and would agree with the whole no shirt no shoes no service type thing.

Maybe it’s best to befriend a local restaurant with maybe booth type seating where the child maybe isn’t on display as such thus no complaints from other patrons and no risks of spillages apart from themselves.

I mean how many women have you seen wearing string tops, with arms and underarms uncovered?

That not allowed either, because it's "unhygienic".

And social services and logged it!

No. The Act dictates that people are not discriminated against specifically on the grounds of their disability. If he is unable to follow etiquette, wholly or even in part due to his disability, then they are discriminating by not making reasonable adjustment to allow him the same enjoyment - in this case turning a blind eye to the fact that he had no t shirt on. Nobody died. And the restaurant staff, instead of modifying their attitude once they realised the problem was due to a disability, continued to put pressure on the parents, drawing unnecessary attention to it all.

I need to stop opening these posts, it may be well intentioned but it just ends up so depressing, I wish people wouldn't start them. It really brings out the ignorance. I admire those parents in a way, I don't have the guts to take my DS to restaurants, he'd be loud (non verbal but he's noisy), he'd make a mess, he may bang his head against the table, he would offend and upset many by his non peaceful presence.Taking his top off would be the least of my worries to be honest. Good for the parents for having the confidence to take their child out to a restaurant like regular parents can, and not hiding away. Severe autism exists, whether the general public like to see it or not, and really, is a topless boy who is calm and settled really bothering anyone (if the answer is yes, I'd love those people to live a day of my life, it would put things into perspective).

Hot food, shared food, buffet service, erratic and apparently uncontrollable behavior by an 8 year old child? What could go wrong?

The parent’s answer that they can’t/wont control their child is not a good answer. I pity the restaurant staff for having to work with such entitled people.

'Your view that it's because of predators in the restaurant is ridiculous, it's really not likely.'

@Noyesnoyes

Again, I'm aware it's unlikely. I have stated this multiple times.

And publicly flogged the parents.

I'm torn on this as I have an older ds with sever learning difficulties.
Im asking myself if I would have been OK with my ds being there without a shirt ...... and I wouldn't. I know how hard it can be going outwith a child who doesn't want to conform but Ifind it strange the parents didn't try.
There are some rules we all have to live by and appropriate clothing is one of them.
I don't know any parents of children with additional needs who would allow that and my ds special school wouldn't allow a child out in public in their care remove clothing either.

Behaviour that is acceptable when they are small can be a huge issue when they are older and much more difficult to address.

I don't think the restaurant are in the wrong.

This would be such a good idea if restaurants had this!

Where does that end though? What if it meant that, as he or anyone with autism got older, wanted to strip to underwear or even nudity in a restaurant. Do you see what I mean? Where is the line drawn between the argument 'they need to do this because of their disability' and 'this makes the restaurant owners and other patrons feel uncomfortable'?

And we’re supposed to believe that someone so lovely as to be concerned about a child’s privacy/dignity, would post this here to be insensitive to parents of autistic children. Anyone genuinely mind would have kept this in their head and worked out what to do themselves. It didn’t happen though and was purely posted to attract other ableist and goady posters.

I’m glad someone posted this. Spot on.

So why have you started this thread, then taken offence and told people what they can say?

It's you that's triggered you and you're blaming others?

That's not fair.

Not sure about the UK (if that's where OP is) but in the US state I live in (and others) it's a food hygiene law that shirts and shoes must be worn in all eating establishments including take aways. Some food stores also require them.

To my knowledge there are no exceptions based on age.

If a child can’t stay fully clothed because they will kick off - they shouldn’t be in a restaurant where others are eating. It’s really bad manners autistic or not.

They know their son best and are probably having a shit time coming to terms with his disability and how best to find a way forward. This doesn’t make them entitled - a word bandied about far too often on MN - and my sympathies are with the child and the parents who have to deal with such ignorant attitudes.

Where I live there is a law established by the health department that requires everyone a building serving food to wear clothing covering their torso and to wear shoes.

so the restaurant would be required to remove them, but the family would be aware of the law.

@EggsBenedick

What about health and safety in regards of workplace 🤔 then?

The restaurant staff are protecting that autistic boy from having any potential accidents such as hot food, hot gravy ect, or hot beverages ☕️ split on him,

The resturants staff are obviously don't want the stress and financial hit,
of if accident happened due to hot food or drink being split by themselves,

autustic child's parents be hot footing to solictor,
probably wanting 🙄 🇺🇸 American style compensation,
for their precious child,
no doubt..

How do you feel about my child who uses ear defenders?

I've worked with in this industry for more than 20yrs & I would be furious if an autistic child was treated this way. Had someone asked me to do that as an employee I'd have refused & questioned my desire to work somewhere like that.

I would definitely be leaving a negative review, probably include something about how the other diners didn't see fit to intervene 🤨

Sensory issues with fabrics around eating (& toileting) specifically are not uncommon.

Edited to say - some of you are absolutely bloody awful

You presumably don't realise a lot of autistic kids cant be disciplined.

As in biologically are incapable of learning by negative operand conditioning. My daughter doesnt respond to no, to a shouted warning if she's in danger. She loves bees. We've asked, told, shouted and physically restrained her in succession, but she still gets hold of them and gets stung. She screams, cries, gets upset as to why the bee woukd do that to her....

... Then does the exact same thing the next day.

The same applies to running across roads, jumping off cliffs, approaching open flames or hot drinks.

So I'm genuinely keen to see what suggestion for 'discipline' you have that might work?

Me neither. He's 8. It's his chest. Surely that's a small price to pay? I'd rather have him there topless than upset and screaming.

At least he's out, socialising, spending time with his family and eating new food/food he likes??