Lodgers entitlements

[Exitstrategist]

Hi- expecting to be flamed here but interested in what people think. We have a small flat (2 bedroom) in Dublin. Our interest rates have gone up three times so we needed to get a lodger. Husband uses the flat two nights a week. Advertised on well-known spare room type site. Woman interested. Works nearby. She is from the city so led us to believe she was just here during the week. Agreed a price including bills for Monday- Friday. Husband agreed with her that she could stay the occasional weekend if we aren’t using it. The problem is we haven’t been using it and husband has been rarely here too. We have come for the weekend- asked her to leave as kids need to use her room. There is stuff EVERYWHERE- she has clearly fully moved in and here all the time. Created a fuss about how inconvenient it was to move out. The place is filthy. Our bills are now reflecting that she is here full time. Husband does not want this. We have a lot of people using the flat in coming weekends and need her out of here but she is making us feel like the unreasonable ones. Who is being unreasonable? I have said to husband he needs to sit her down and go through house rules. Her bloody mate is storing stuff here too!!!

YABU because you've allowed this to happen without taking care of an enormously valuable asset.

Give her notice as a lodger.

Either find someone who is truly Mon-Fri and make it clear the room is to be cleared out for the use of someone else at a weekend or rent it out fully.

You've created huge confusion by allowing her to stay some weekends for free and not checking on the situation.

I absolutely agree with you here. We initially struggled to find someone so she seemed great. But she has been cheeky in thinking this is a flat share rather than lodging. She would pay double for that.

Lodgers have an awful lot less rights than a tenant does. Either she needs to understand her contract or if it’s not working out because she isn’t living their monday-Friday as agreed, you can easily kick her out.

Im fed up of people assuming that every landlord is a multi-millionaire.

The majority of tenants are excellent so put this down to experience and bad luck, and find someone more trustworthy next time.

Out of curiosity did you get references?

She saw you coming. Lodgers don’t have any rights, unless you have a contract with her saying she does.

Deadline to move out and change the locks.

I know a lot of Monday- Friday let’s can be flexible and I think it’s good to have that relationship with your lodger.

And sorry - I should clarify above that I’m referring to lodgers not tenants!

I work in London part of the week. Currently staying in hotels but if I decided to get a Mon-Fri let, I have no idea who I would get references from. I’ve owned my main home for 20 years!

Wow. What a mess. You are absolutely being unreasonable. This isn't a lodger situation if other people are going to use her room at weekends

I suggest you get some proper legal advice.

Why would I need legal advice?

We wanted to foster goodwill by allowing her to stay the odd weekend. I took comfort that there was someone in the flat also but now the lines have been crossed. Is it unreasonable to ask for occasional use of her room on weekends when we have a Monday- Friday arrangement?

True! I’ve never done Monday-Friday before but when flat hunting on spare room I’ve come across many of them and assumed there would be references.

But in all honesty anyone can write a reference for a lodger! The first time I rented I had to ask a friend to write mine as I’d only ever lived with my parents before that.

Agreed!! I’ve lodged many times, and now have/have had lodgers and an awful lot has been done on goodwill and usually that works out ok. If you have to live with people, you don’t want it to have to be so rigid.

Despite what others may say, you have just been unlucky and YANBU at all

What is she supposed to do with her stuff at weekends though?

I think you need to terminate the agreement as it's clearly not working

I think legal advice may be relevant as she could argue she has had unfettered and sole use of the property which makes her a tenant, not a lodger. That changes her rights enormously. Especially as this is not your full time home.

We just got a reference from her workplace. She lived with her family before that- which is why we also took her at her word that she would be home at weekends. She created a fuss about moving out over this weekend and said she would have to sleep on a friends sofa

https://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/lodger-legal-rights#:~:text=Unlike%20a%20tenant%20or%20a,without%20prior%20notice%20or%20permission.

She definitely has not had sole use of it as husband has been here one or two nights most weeks

“Unlike a tenant or a subtenant, a lodger does not have exclusive rights to the room they pay for, (save more something being expressly agreed). They cannot lock their lodging space before going out as it remains accessible to the landlord in the lodger's absence without prior notice or permission.”

I definitely have sympathy about what she does with her stuff but it shouldn’t all be here in the first place!!! If she wanted a proper flat share she would pay double around here for that not to mention all the bills

The OP is in Dublin. This is not relevant.

What she does with her stuff at the weekend is her problem given that she's only paying Monday to Friday.
If she needs 7 days then she gets a proper agreement and pays the going rate

That’s a good way of looking at it. She has cut off her nose to spite her face really. If she kept the place in a more hygienic way and didn’t kick up about moving out she could have continued with a great deal!!

I think you needed to be clearer what she can and cannot do.

You thought she was just ‘staying’ in the flat, like a hotel guest would. However, she interpreted the agreement that she was ‘living’ there, Monday to Friday.

So basically, neither of you are wrong, it’s just a basic miscommunication on house rules and expectations.

The guy we had before her was a ghost which is what we want. He had literally no stuff- came late Monday night and left for the weekend on a Friday morning.

So, you’re under the impression that she has a home somewhere else and is meant to only stay with you for the work week? So she should only have work clothes at yours and some toiletries.
But what’s actually happened is that she has moved in, put stuff all over the flat and is staying every weekend?

You’re going to have to sit down and sort this out.

Make clear
-she is a lodger and has sole use of the bedroom Monday to Friday, plus access to communal rooms but she cannot store anything there.
-she cannot stay there Friday night to Monday morning. She is being charged for Monday to Friday and that’s it. If she wants more then she needs to pay full lodger price.
-she only has sole use of her room Monday to Friday. Over weekends, the room can be used by others. She can leave some things in a dresser unit but that’s it.
-She cannot store friend’s property in the flat.

You have to decide who is responsible for stripping the bed sheets. Does she do it on a Friday before she leaves? And then you do it again on a Sunday if you’ve been staying in the room?

You need to make to clear to her that she is a part time lodger. She has no rights and she cannot stay there outside of the work week. You tried to be flexible over some weekends but she took advantage.

You’ll find it hard to get a Monday to Friday lodger though, so you might just have to rethink and accept that lodgers will live there all week.

Legally and taxation wise, is she actually a lodger at all given that it appears to be a second home/property. I understood that a "lodger" lives in a room IN YOUR HOME.

That is a problem you need to clarify, and the "lodger" problem comes from the fact that the owner/tenant does not live there full time, so naturally she thinks she has the run of the place.

She could claim to be a tenant, and she doesn't need a formal contract to claim this either.

Gird your loins, this could be a bumpy ride!