Kids in changing room at gym

[Snowypony]

Yesterday I was running late for my aqua gym class

i already had my swimming costume on under my clothes

i I ran in the changing rooms and there was a boy in there who was taller than me

i didn’t have time to question the Mum - he had clearly started puberty. He watched me get changed which left me very uncomfortable

i I got in the pool and my friend saw I was a bit upset and asked why. I explained and said the boy was about 12. There are no changing rooms at my gym - it’s just benches so you have to get naked when changing

my friend went over and spoke to the Mun who got really angry and said he’s entitled to be in there he’s only 11

when I got out they’re left but I still went and complained to the gym staff.

I don’t have a ds only dd so I’ve never had this issue. But is it reasonable to expect an 11 year old to use their own sex changing room?

(Because then you can try and either a) make an accommodation for their situation b) advise them of other potential options c) or if none available, join them in complaining to management)

But the adults with that child should have been supervising enough to ensure he couldn’t harm anyone else. It’s not the child’s fault but the carers need to take responsibility.

same when it comes to changing the carers need to find a solution which doesn’t impact on others or go for the least worst solution which isn’t generally using the female facility.

I agree with you.

We thought, as carers of a disabled child, that they were negligent and putting him at risk by not supervising him closely enough.

But his actual right to be in the playground wasn’t any different and we made the accommodation for him to be in the space, taking the judgement call that our child would not be playing on or near the same piece of equipment.

That isn’t excluding our DC or infringing on their rights, but making space for the disabled person once we had assessed the situation.

Sometimes there is no solution available to avoid impacting others… you don’t realise this until you actually have to deal with taking a disabled child out into the world.

The intersection of sex and disability is what's being discussed here. It's understandable that a disabled woman might find it a lot more difficult and feel more vulnerable going into men's changing rooms (or toilets) with a disabled (or non-disabled) child than a non-disabled woman might.

Disabled people are subjected to a disproportionate amount of abuse from strangers.

My daughter with learning difficulties deserves her own space, no males over 8 at my gym, that means no males even with disabilities. I make plenty of decisions about what she can and cannot access due to her disabilities, meaning she misses out on some things, that is life for her.

Except the likely mansplaining neglects 2 basic facts…
Firstly, what about women with a disability who are using their own space. THEY don’t deserve an adult male in there, disability or no disability.
Secondly, men are typically not at risk from women and they very rarely fear for their safety around them. I went to a concert recently and the men didn’t seem to care that their bathrooms became unisex because of the extreme lines for the women’s. They didn’t have the same inherent fear of women in their bathrooms as can hold true in the reverse. When I’ve needed to duck into the male toilets to help DS, no one has batted an eyelid… precisely because they pretty much KNOW I’m not a threat. I think most men have no clue the level of threat some women can experience. I completely empathise for the poster with the severely disabled son, I just disagree with how I’d handle it. Another poster said their severely disabled son didn’t have any physical disabilities or outward signs. In that case working toward independent toileting does seem an appropriate goal. I recently took my 16 year old nephew out for the day. He has a severe ID (IQ of <50) and ASD among other difficulties. He is 6’2, so taking him into the women’s wasn’t an option and his mother doesn’t either.

The intersection of sex and disability is what's being discussed here.

Actually what is being discussed is an 11 yo no obvious SEN fully in the female changing room staring at a women who was changing with his mother declaring his right to be there as he is only 11.

The discussion has moved on, since then, to how we can make provisions for women needing to take children with them into changing or other single sex facilities under various circumstances, whether pre-teen or disabled children or carers of any age, as these are all under provided for.

@4timesthefun

Completely respect that you would handle things differently to me.

Thinking about what you’ve said, I have disability myself so that possibly impacts how I go about things.

Concern for son is that he has difficulty perceiving danger (from strangers/physical risks in the environment), with impulse control and with gross motor skills. Physically looks ‘normal’. And he is too small to physically defend himself. Never mind can’t dress independently.

Obvious risks being tripping, drowning, assault and so forth.

Hoping by 16 the level of independence and ability to cope improves substantially.

It's moved on because you forced the issue changing the original post in to something completely different.

You want to discuss how society can do better for disabled people then start a seperate thread I will gladly show support. All you have done on this one is force the point that males cannot be inconvenienced so that a male can use the male space and that the female space is the open for all who need it option.

Yes this is a more productive conversation.

Most instances of over age boys in women’s changing will have an issue..

Obviously able boys being brought in or disabled not being supervised appropriately or allowed to gawk and stare is down to poor parenting.

I've done nothing of the sort. You must be thinking of someone else.

Also, in the OP’s last post she is giving off about children being at the gym at all, is astounded in fact that they are there because really they should be going to the child friendly facilities 10 miles away in town where her daughter went and so on…

While others who have commented genuinely do have an issue regarding opposite sex use of designated space.

It does read to me like OP expects that her gym be child free for the cost paid, is annoyed that people are bringing their kids (even though they are allowed to for the pool), and is particularly affronted at the boy in changing room… but it sounds like an irritation on the whole.

Yes this is a more productive conversation.

That's your opinion.

You feel is more productive because you are talking about your issues. The majority of others including the OP were talking about the inappropriateness of males over a certain age in female spaces and how that not only makes women & girls feel but also how we are demonised for wanting a female only space.

@MaterialGirlAllDay

If the majority of boys in female spaces are ones with disabilities…

Wouldn’t it be better to work out why that is and where they are being failed.

So that they are accommodated elsewhere and ultimately you get what you want across the board.

I do feel a lot of the feminist issues surrounding trans being in female spaces are bleeding over to the point where even disabled male children are demonised.

That’s not the point of the thread though is it? You, and others, have managed to derail it by saying ‘but but but what about XYZ’ to find excuses for males being in female spaces.

Obviously you know normal 11year old boys don’t belong in women’s changing rooms so now we’ve moved to special needs boys who may poo on the floor if not allowed into female toilets, which really is nothing to do with the problem the OP posted about.

Wouldn’t it be better to work out why that is and where they are being failed.

We know why that is.

Inadequate accessible/family facilities mixed with some mothers who believe their sons have a right to be there.

I do feel a lot of the feminist issues surrounding trans being in female spaces are bleeding over to the point where even disabled male children are demonised

I was on MN 15 years ago and over age boys in female spaces was an issue then way before the trans issue was even on MN radar.

Not at all. I was just explaining that the gym isn’t a local child friendly gym as lots were saying it was the local gym. It’s not. It’s way out of town, no public transport within at least 5 miles of it. I wouldn’t take my child to a non child friendly gym - the local gyms have family changing rooms. This one does not. There is no shallow end in the pool. Nothing for kids at all. There are family friendly options available on bus routes, in town close to where people live! I honestly couldn’t care less about kids being in the pool. They are a joy but the gym is not child friendly - that was simply what I was explaining. And why you’d want to take kids to somewhere that isn’t set up for them - why does that make me a kid hater?

You have completely derailed the original post and it is not more productive. You have made the entire thread about an issue that is personal to you. How can you say the majority of boy in female spaces are disabled???

Nowhere in OP's post did she say the boy had extra needs. So the topic is about neuro typical, non- disabled preteens in female spaces when they are too old. You also tried to add another element that OP just didn't want kids in the space at all, which she never said.

If you want responses on your issue, you should create your own thread. Then you can add all the hypothetical situations you want.

It feels like separate issues to me.

Yes there should be appropriate disabled facilities available which can be private so mixed sex doesn’t matter. Ideally not just one token one but a few

On an unrelated note female facilities should be single sex at the age specified by the service provider.

At my gym/health club they allow children to swim on a Saturday and Sunday afternoon, 8 year boys old and over have to use the men's changing rooms and vice versa. I would also be really uncomfortable changing in the situation you have described!

I didn't say any of those things. I think you mean someone else, perhaps.

However, reading the posts by disabled women about their experiences, I do think the issues are linked, as they're about how we need provision for women with sons who are either preteen (so too old to go into the women's changing room, but either too young or vulnerable to go alone to the men's) or who can't go alone for another reason, such as a disability. The issue is that somewhere for mothers to go with their preteen and older children is needed, whatever the reason.

Sorry, I misread that and replied wrongly, as I'm distracted, thought it was to me!

The issue is that somewhere for mothers to go with their preteen and older children is needed, whatever the reason.

Family rooms exist.
If the venue doesn't have such a provision then sadly you don't visit and you complain to the venue. What you don't do is go anyway and use the female space for your over age male child.

What if a young lad doesn’t want YOU in his space and you being there makes him uncomfortable? I’m not having it doesn’t work both ways.

Why is it suddenly ok for you to be in the men’s toilet? 🙄