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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Kids in changing room at gym

1000 replies

Snowypony · 30/03/2024 09:19

Yesterday I was running late for my aqua gym class

i already had my swimming costume on under my clothes

i I ran in the changing rooms and there was a boy in there who was taller than me

i didn’t have time to question the Mum - he had clearly started puberty. He watched me get changed which left me very uncomfortable

i I got in the pool and my friend saw I was a bit upset and asked why. I explained and said the boy was about 12. There are no changing rooms at my gym - it’s just benches so you have to get naked when changing

my friend went over and spoke to the Mun who got really angry and said he’s entitled to be in there he’s only 11

when I got out they’re left but I still went and complained to the gym staff.

I don’t have a ds only dd so I’ve never had this issue. But is it reasonable to expect an 11 year old to use their own sex changing room?

OP posts:
KeinLiebeslied54321 · 31/03/2024 18:41

I cannot believe that lack of accessible facilities is still being justified as a reason for males to enter female only spaces - absolutely shocking!

Mrbumpssmile · 31/03/2024 18:42

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 31/03/2024 18:40

A 7 year old is allowed in the opposite sex space.

Obviously, but I was responding to someone who was saying they hadn't realised that some 7 year olds don't feel ready to go swimming or into changing rooms alone. Please try to look at the contexts of comments here, as it can help avoid misunderstandings.

arethereanyleftatall · 31/03/2024 18:44

I see that, but from this thread alone @Mrbumpssmile
It's just not my real life experience.
Anyone who wants to join swim club comes for a trial. To assess their swimming ability. I do quite a lot of the admin, not once have I ever received an email from a parent asking what the changing room situation is. They just do the trial, then join for training if they get in. Parents drop and go. A very small handful watch. Some pick up 1.5 hours later. Our lowest ability group is 7-10 year olds. 30 kids in the pool. None of this assuming everyone is a pedophile stuff. Just getting on with life.
Like I said, the idea that an 11 yo doesn't go in to his own changing room is parallel universe stuff for me.

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 31/03/2024 18:44

Mrbumpssmile · 31/03/2024 18:41

Disabled people's needs are excluded and ignored even more than women's and children's, so as a disabled woman with a disabled child you experience a lot of marginalisation like this, I imagine. All this should be addressed at a societal, legal, institutional level rather than the finger-pointing we sometimes see on here at people just trying to get by. :(

I agree that disabled people's needs are often ignored.
I don't agree that the women only space should be the automatic default when the disabled facility isn't up to par/there at all.

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 31/03/2024 18:45

Mrbumpssmile · 31/03/2024 18:42

Obviously, but I was responding to someone who was saying they hadn't realised that some 7 year olds don't feel ready to go swimming or into changing rooms alone. Please try to look at the contexts of comments here, as it can help avoid misunderstandings.

There was no misunderstanding.

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 18:49

Mrbumpssmile · 31/03/2024 18:41

Disabled people's needs are excluded and ignored even more than women's and children's, so as a disabled woman with a disabled child you experience a lot of marginalisation like this, I imagine. All this should be addressed at a societal, legal, institutional level rather than the finger-pointing we sometimes see on here at people just trying to get by. :(

Indeed.

Intersectionality in their thinking is completely beyond the scope of people on mumsnet.

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 18:52

Anyone who would rather see a disabled person piss themselves or worse, instead of enter the wrong toilet is inhumane.
Obviously complaints should be made, and the venue shamed, but humanity should take precedence. However complaining what sort the immediate issue.

It is in no way comparable to over age children in a leisure facility. That is an optional, non urgent activity.

bradpittsbathwater · 31/03/2024 18:53

How tone deaf is the mum. Ridiculous. Hopefully they email all members to reaffirm the policy.

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 18:58

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 18:52

Anyone who would rather see a disabled person piss themselves or worse, instead of enter the wrong toilet is inhumane.
Obviously complaints should be made, and the venue shamed, but humanity should take precedence. However complaining what sort the immediate issue.

It is in no way comparable to over age children in a leisure facility. That is an optional, non urgent activity.

Indeed.

Im supposed to be Very Concerned that my ds might make them uncomfortable in a toilet (and I am, so I don’t take him in there), but they have no concern with whether I’m uncomfortable in the mens with them using the urinal 🤷‍♀️.

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 18:58

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 18:37

Meanwhile in actual polite society, people understand that disabled people might need to take precedence for a short period of time.

Its all well and good saying they should leave... but if they need the toilet then they need the toilet.

I have no issue with that and if it's a male that needs to use the facilities then the other males need to be part of polite society and accommodate don't you think?

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 18:59

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 18:52

Anyone who would rather see a disabled person piss themselves or worse, instead of enter the wrong toilet is inhumane.
Obviously complaints should be made, and the venue shamed, but humanity should take precedence. However complaining what sort the immediate issue.

It is in no way comparable to over age children in a leisure facility. That is an optional, non urgent activity.

I don't think anyone has said they would rather see a disabled person piss themselves have they?

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 19:02

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 18:59

I don't think anyone has said they would rather see a disabled person piss themselves have they?

That’s what happens when disabled people are denied access to toilets.

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 19:03

You said I should be going into the men’s, and not accept them refusing to leave- so I should go in there while they are pissing at face level?

That is your choice. What makes you think all the men would stay? The default is not and should not be you making many women and girls uncomfortable.

As I said plan better if the needs of your son cannot be met at the venue then leave.

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 19:04

Nobody is denying them access to a toilet.

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 19:07

@MaterialGirlAllDay in one post you are saying they should leave if no disabled toilet, in the next you are saying you aren't denying them access... which is it? You do get its an urgent need?

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 19:11

PuttingDownRoots · 31/03/2024 19:07

@MaterialGirlAllDay in one post you are saying they should leave if no disabled toilet, in the next you are saying you aren't denying them access... which is it? You do get its an urgent need?

Yes because if you arrive at a venue that cannot accommodate your needs why stay?

Males can obviously use the male toilet and females the female if they choose not to use the correct toilet for their sex that's on them that's not me or anyone else denying them access it's the same for everyone. The venue is at fault not the women who want female only toilets or changing rooms.

lovehatelovehate · 31/03/2024 19:13

I wonder how many of the mums here scolding other women and insisting their sons should be able to use the women’s, have actually complained to the management and tried to effect change? Boys deserve to be safe, of course they do, but making women and girls feel uncomfortable / unsafe is simply not the answer.

i am mum of a son myself (and a daughter), and I feel a great responsibility to ensure he grows up respecting women’s boundaries. It is a difficult situation for boys with disabilities, but it is not the responsibility of females, and they should not have to shut up and put up with this

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 19:14

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 19:03

You said I should be going into the men’s, and not accept them refusing to leave- so I should go in there while they are pissing at face level?

That is your choice. What makes you think all the men would stay? The default is not and should not be you making many women and girls uncomfortable.

As I said plan better if the needs of your son cannot be met at the venue then leave.

What makes you think all the men would stay?

Um, a lifetime of experience as a disabled woman? Does it occur to you that I’ve been living these situations for years and I know how they go?

I do leave- disabled people are forced out of places all the time. The fact you think “just leave”, or “don’t go to that venue” are a novel suggestion speaks volumes.

As does the fact you don’t see anything wrong with me (a woman) being told I can go in the men’s toilet with the men, while all the other women must be protected from those self same men.

As long as you’re alright though aye?

MaterialGirlAllDay · 31/03/2024 19:22

Um, a lifetime of experience as a disabled woman?

Why would you need to access the men's as a woman?
You said your son is only young so you take him in the women's anyway.

I do leave- disabled people are forced out of places all the time. The fact you think “just leave”, or “don’t go to that venue” are a novel suggestion speaks volumes.

Yes and it's terrible and venues should do better it's not novel to think that. It is however novel to decide womens spaces are the solution to inadequate facilities for males.

As does the fact you don’t see anything wrong with me (a woman) being told I can go in the men’s toilet with the men, while all the other women must be protected from those self same men.

As I said ask them to leave or seek support from venue staff if they don't.
You are frankly full if excuses. You would rather use the female space with your male son that do anything else. I have needed to access disabled spaces as I said. I have needed to ask men to leave and seek support from venue staff to meet my fathers needs and yes we had to leave sometimes. At no point did I take him in to the female space as there were are other alternatives.

Minimili · 31/03/2024 19:43

It’s been great to see how many women are standing for women’s spaces on this thread and who disagree with older boys in changing rooms.

A couple of years ago I was getting changed after swimming at the gym, it’s like OP’s gym - out of town, the pool is the only thing children can use, expensive membership and there are other local leisure centres with family changing rooms and a children’s pool nearby whereas this gym has no family changing and just men’s and ladies changing rooms and one disabled cubicle.

The women’s changing room is open plan with lockers and benches and showers with glass doors so not much privacy.

I walked into the changing room after my swim and there was a woman and boy who had come out of the pool before me. The woman was doing her makeup and talking on her phone whilst the boy who seemed about 11/12 was walking round the changing room fully dressed.
I wanted to say something but I’m not great at confrontation and it was difficult when she was on the phone, I wanted to wait till they left but I was rushing so went for a shower with my back to the cubicle door.

When I looked round the boy was just stood watching whilst his mother was still on the phone, I got angry and told him it was rude to stare and to go away. I quickly finished my shower and when I turned the water off I heard the boy saying
“mum that lady shouted at me because I saw her bosoms”
His mother said “you shouldn’t have been looking I told you to sit here”
The boy said “mum how come some women are hairy and others aren’t like that lady?”

By this point I was seething angry that I was an object of curiosity and I felt so uncomfortable so I went over to the boys mother in my towel and she ended her phone call. I told her that it was highly inappropriate for her son to be not only in the women’s changing area but to just be roaming round it peeping at people and he should have been in the men’s.
She told me she felt safer with her son coming in with her and she didn’t want him changing in front of grown men, she also said he’s curious about bodies and stares at people so she didn’t want him getting in trouble for staring at men and said as there are no family changing rooms she would continue to bring him in.
She tried to lie and say he was only 9 but she had also mentioned his school on her phone call which is a secondary school!

She wasn’t going to change her mind so I spoke to staff who said they would put up signs saying the cut off point for children of the opposite sex to enter would be 8 in future. People still tried to ignore it and most staff were good at policing it except for a female staff member who had a son and often commented that women shouldn’t have issues with boys entering the womens because it was safer, she was reported for it so many times that in the end she left or was sacked.

After the experience with the woman on her phone just leaving her son to watch me changing I posted on the gym website reviews about older boys not being allowed in the women’s changing rooms, I was ripped to pieces online, threatened, doxxed and a women who knows me and saw my post even told me I was “sad and pathetic” in the street for complaining.
I also fell out with one of my best friends after she saw the post because she still takes her neurotypical son into women’s changing rooms and he’s nearly 12 and towers over me. I’m a tiny woman and bigger adolescent boys could easily overpower me.

I used to look after children with autism and learning disabilities and other support needs and we had to take a few each week to swinming lessons, there were two female members of staff and we had a mix of boys and girls aged 11/12 On one occasion the local pool we used with cubicles and family changing rooms was closed for renovations so we were told to use a different pool which just had open men’s and women’s changing rooms.
We had to use the ladies but it was a really stressful situation, the children were curious and staring at others changing, the boys were shouting “boobies look boobies!” And one boy was trying to touch his female peers. As staff we couldn’t cope and had to leave and just cancel the lesson.
I also have a friend who takes her autistic son into women’s toilets and changing rooms and he’s nearly 13, he displays a lot of sexual behaviours and it’s completely inappropriate. She’s a single parent and insistent he can’t change alone in the men’s and she doesn’t want him to miss out. He can easily overpower her and I have told her that she’s being selfish and putting other women in a terrible situation, I refuse to go anywhere with her and her son alone because I’m scared of him.
He has tried to take photographs and peep under doors and she has no way of stopping him, but he also behaves in a similar way if he goes alone into the men’s changing rooms and toilets so the only option she has is to not take him out in public unless there are more suitable facilities.
I sympathise completely with people who have neurodivergent children but the answer is to campaign for more suitable spaces and not give up women’s spaces to boys.

Like other people who have posted I was also a victim of sexual abuse as a child by another child - an older boy. I think it’s naive to assume that boys wouldn’t be interested if there were girls of a similar age undressing in front of them.

I think it’s far more reasonable for boys to use the men’s changing rooms and their mums to wait outside or for them to go with another male then to come into the women’s and make women and other girls feel uncomfortable.

There is a huge difference between a 6 year old boy and an 11 year old adolescent. People have made comments not to sexualise children but the fact is at this age boys are curious and it’s not appropriate for them to be around naked women/girls. Girls going through puberty are extremely conscious of it and boys tease them, an 11 year old girl doesn’t want to go to school with a boy who has seen her naked and to worry about him telling his friends or making comments.

If you are too scared to let your son get changed in the correct sex changing room and won’t make allowances like getting changed at the poolside then you need to find other swimming facilities. Getting changed in women’s spaces is against the rules and not an option, it’s incredibly selfish to think your sons desire to swim trumps the comfort and safety of all the women and girls who have the right to these spaces.

If you are unhappy with the changing facilities then it’s your job to campaign for better options for boys. Nothing is going to change if you just keep bringing boys into women’s areas. A pp mentions working in a leisure centre and people breaking the rules because they are worried about their boys safety but doing nothing to change the situation and not complaining about the changing room set up. The more people speak up the better chance they have of being heard.

My nephew has been going into men’s changing rooms since he was 7, my sister puts him in his swimming shorts and a tracksuit so he gets undressed quickly and she shouts through the door to check on him, he walks to the poolside alone. When he’s finished his swim she puts a towel poncho over him at the poolside and towel dries him then he goes back to the changing room, dresses quickly and waits outside the ladies for her. He had nothing with difficult buttons or laces and nothing to put in a locker except his clothes.
He was nervous to start with but my sister never made it into a big deal and he was fine. There were often other boys getting changed with their dads and even young girls.
I have asked many men about their experiences changing in the men’s and they all said similar, unless you send your son in after a football match or other sporting event it’d be unusual for him to be completely surrounded by naked men with no other children or dads - especially if you are visiting during swimming classes or children’s hours.

We need to do all we can to keep women’s spaces for ourselves, the more we accommodate the bigger chance we have of being made to share them, it is nice to see that the majority of people on this thread recognise this and despite a lot of people having boys themselves they make their own lives harder to protect other women. This is the attitude we all need and what feminism is really about.

Mrbumpssmile · 31/03/2024 19:46

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 31/03/2024 18:45

There was no misunderstanding.

You repeatedly pretended I was saying things I never said, intentionally, then?! Harrassment.

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 19:57

My ds is too old to go in the ladies, he was 10 last week, which is why I don’t take him in there- unless I’ve been put in a situation where he will projectile vomit or shit everywhere, and the only accessible toilet has been put in the women’s toilets.

In that case I ask people if it’s ok- if it isn’t (because the men say no to me going in and the women say no to him going in), then whatever comes out of him is going on the floor 🤷‍♀️.

I’ve never known a man or woman to have a breakdown because of being asked if we can use their bathroom.

Ive also been forced to allow random shop assistants to take him to the toilet because I can’t get in there and he can’t wait so they have volunteered to take him to the staff only toilet.

If people complain about being asked to use the toilet, or because there is vomit on the floor, all the better- I don’t like the situation either.

If you like I can happily pass on the contact details for the venues in question and you can add to the complaints.

I can’t know this will be the set up until I get to a place- accessible information on websites etc is often a total fantasy. As is the info you get when you ring in advance of going to places.

Once I know somewhere doesn’t cater to our needs, we don’t go back- and our world gets that bit smaller.

I have been disabled for 40 years, I was raised by a disabled woman and I’m bringing up a disabled child- don’t compare taking your dad on a few day trips in a manual wheelchair over the course of 8 months with my life and experience as a disabled woman. You don’t have a clue what it’s like.

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 20:14

MyMotherThouArt · 31/03/2024 19:57

My ds is too old to go in the ladies, he was 10 last week, which is why I don’t take him in there- unless I’ve been put in a situation where he will projectile vomit or shit everywhere, and the only accessible toilet has been put in the women’s toilets.

In that case I ask people if it’s ok- if it isn’t (because the men say no to me going in and the women say no to him going in), then whatever comes out of him is going on the floor 🤷‍♀️.

I’ve never known a man or woman to have a breakdown because of being asked if we can use their bathroom.

Ive also been forced to allow random shop assistants to take him to the toilet because I can’t get in there and he can’t wait so they have volunteered to take him to the staff only toilet.

If people complain about being asked to use the toilet, or because there is vomit on the floor, all the better- I don’t like the situation either.

If you like I can happily pass on the contact details for the venues in question and you can add to the complaints.

I can’t know this will be the set up until I get to a place- accessible information on websites etc is often a total fantasy. As is the info you get when you ring in advance of going to places.

Once I know somewhere doesn’t cater to our needs, we don’t go back- and our world gets that bit smaller.

I have been disabled for 40 years, I was raised by a disabled woman and I’m bringing up a disabled child- don’t compare taking your dad on a few day trips in a manual wheelchair over the course of 8 months with my life and experience as a disabled woman. You don’t have a clue what it’s like.

@MaterialGirlAllDay I meant to quote you for this reply.

StephanieSuperpowers · 31/03/2024 20:16

I’ve never known a man or woman to have a breakdown because of being asked if we can use their bathroom

I wonder whether you see how contemptuous that sounds to anyone who might not be comfortable?

TheaBrandt · 31/03/2024 20:22

Think there are different threads going on - op made no suggestion that the 11 year old boy in the womens changing room was disabled.

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