Something needs to be done about drugs in UK

[RegretMisery]

Drugs are killing healthy young people. How is it that a drug dealer is not tried as a murderer?

It's not limited to class. It could be your own son or daughter.

You know how many people in Singapore die from overdoses? Almost none, because drugs are actually illegal there.

I can sit next to a crack head on a bus simply by getting on a bus. Doesn't require a change in legislation to enjoy that

They change the structure of the brain.

https://desertcoverecovery.com/blog/study-cites-benzo-use-cause-brain-changes/

I was responding to the OP.

I do not agree that arguing the case for decriminalisation is "equally as problematic" as suggesting anyone caught in possession with intent to supply be charged with murder and given life imprisonment, or even the death penalty as some have argued on this thread. As for considering the reality of decriminalisation, the reality is that it can be transformative for law and order and public health when done properly with a robust harm reduction strategy, not a half arsed one like Canada. This means proper investment from the Government in making medical and therapeutic treatments easily accessible. In Switzerland the controlled medical distribution of herion has been in place since the early 90's and and has led to a significant reduction in deaths by OD, blood borne infections, and criminality associated with drug use. But they did it properly and in a controlled way. No sensible person is going to advocate for legalising everything tomorrow with no careful planning and contingencies in place but those who throw up their hands and say it can't be done are wrong, other countries are doing it successfully, but it requires a level of investment many governments are not prepared to consider.

My argument is that decriminalising something doesn't stop people doing it. It might make life safer for the drug users, but it makes life more dangerous for the rest of us.
And the simple fact is that for a lot of people, the reason they don't try drugs is because they're scared of the legal repercussions. Certainly when I was an immortal teenager I would have happily tried a load of drugs if I hadn't been scared of the police. Remove that fear and I could have tried everything, maybe even ended up addicted.
The fear of prosecution is a deterrent for most people. Take that away, and far more people would become drug addicts. And I fail to see how that benefits society.

Conversely my friend can't go 24 hours without. They are aware after about 4 hours if they miss their dose. Pushing it to 3-4 days risks a seizure and death.

If they had to pay for their prescriptions it would feel like paying to be addicted.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21815323/#:~:text=Withdrawal%20seizures%20have%20occurred%20with,time%20and%20at%20high%20doses.

To add to this a lot of people don’t try drugs because they know they’re an unknown quantity cooked up in some meth head’s garage somewhere, and they don’t want to die. If they’re made ‘safe’, many many many more people will try them and become addicted.

I've answered the PM.

For the thread though, ALWAYS call 999, do CPR (if you are willing, able and safe), administer naloxone if you carry it and are trained and safe. There is no harm to these actions and I've seem people brought back who looked dead to my non-HCP assessment. Breathing is very very slow and shallow, pulse too, cold, blue lips and unresponsive. Unless you're a paramedic and know the person is dead, you should assume there's a small hope.

On the discussion of which drugs are 'worse', there aren't better or worse ones. Alcohol; many people enjoy it safely, it's also the only one which can be fatal to withdraw from. Coke; it's not physically addictive but it's dreadfully psychologically so. Heroin; people tend to compliance and calm when using, but the crime to fuel use is terrible. They all have 'good' and bad qualities.

How I think of it is this: some people have a hole inside them from trauma or pain. Some big, some small. Sometimes that hole is partially or fully filled with family/love/work/purpose. Sometimes it isn't. Along comes a well-designed and addictive drug. The unluckiest people have a big hole, that is not filled with other things and the drug perfectly and exactly fills that hole. Sometimes the drug they try doesn't exactly fit the hole, which is why people may love heroin but hate cocaine. Detox can lever out the drug (assuming the fit isn't so perfect there's not a crack to lever it out). So the person 'gives up' the drug. But the hole remains. Therapy, treatment and hard work can help reduce the size of the hole. Finding a life after drugs can help fill the hole. But the person is never responsible for the hole. And if you've ever tried any drug (including alcohol) and didn't feel warm and whole and happy and like you came home, you are lucky. It's not a will of iron, or self-control, or because you're so wonderful. It's because your holes and the drugs you try didn't fit. Or you are lucky enough to have a good life filling those holes. Or you had a good childhood and don't have holes. Or your personality and the trauma you experienced didn't make big holes.

Don't lie to yourself that you would have been 'strong'.

If they’re made ‘safe’, many many many more people will try them and become addicted.

Not true.

On the discussion of which drugs are 'worse', there aren't better or worse ones. Alcohol; many people enjoy it safely, it's also the only one which can be fatal to
withdraw from

No it's not (see upthread).

People also need to understand habituation and addiction

It's all a matter of opinion and experience.

We can't control people but maybe if we supported peoples choices - they would make better ones.
We need support for families, a working NHS, a decent prison system that rehabilitates. Houses people can feel proud of... education for all.

My argument is that decriminalising something doesn't stop people doing it. It might make life safer for the drug users, but it makes life more dangerous for the rest of us.

Tell that to Switzerland. After they implemented their Harm Reduction strategy incidents of criminality related to heroin addiction drastically reduced. The general public, particularly in areas of socioeconomic deprivation, are safer as a result.

But who wants to be like Switzerland ?

OP you should read some of David Nutt's work. He has the answers to harm reduction but no government wants to know

Edit: in the UK anyway!

I am Canadian and this is not true at all.

We still have issues with hard drugs like fentanyl and heroin but not any more than any other country. The main issues are access to rehab and post rehab care.

Cannabis has been legal for almost 6 years and as a member of the public I see no negatives. Almost 30% of Canadians use cannabis (I would suspect it is even higher) and legalizing it has been a huge benefit for our country. We get tax dollars from the sale, it is harder for underage people to get it now (huge decrease in cannabis dealers now and big charges for dealing to underage people) and people are no longer wasting court and police time with unnecessary cannabis charges.
We treat Cannabis like alcohol and I personally think it has benefit our country overall.

I agree.
If you legalise it, then you’ll end up with a two layer problem. Not only more people buying the legal high, but also those who can always undercut the price of the legal with the illegal.
Maybe we just need tougher penalties and more resources for all of the out of control issues that drugs bring to society.

The biggest problem in dealing with drugs in all countries is the lack of society and infrastructure conducive to better aspirations without them than relief with.

Nowhere has that because capitalism has gone feral and turned everything to dung.

I agree with this. Probably never be able to stop people taking something to take escape reality or look for a high. If it's not drugs, it will be food or dangerous sports or something else. However, poverty and lack of hope or support is why many people turn to drugs or drink. Poverty also kills more people than drugs do but although drugs are illegal, poverty isn't. Invest in public services, housing, and welfare, and problematic drinking or drug taking would be much less of a thing

I also disagree that decriminalisation would make things more dangerous for non drug takers. People are taking them anyway and communities have increased crime because of violent clashes between rival drug gangs. Decriminalisation would make things safer for the user and for everyone else.

Better ban cars.

I agree with this. Probably never be able to stop people taking something to take escape reality or look for a high. If it's not drugs, it will be food or dangerous sports or something else.

Religion, politics, historical re-enactment, crocheting .... the list goes on.

Speaking of religion is incense a drug ?

https://lawandreligionuk.com/2015/07/31/incense-and-the-psychoactive-substances-bill/

Nonsense. Legalizing or decriminalizing doesn't mean "freely available for anyone who fancies it". There wouldn't be a heroin or crack section in between the beer and wine.

Stop replying to this weirdo. She's never so much as had a drink yet knows loads of young people who have ODed. I don't think so. She has literally no understanding of mental health issues or neurodiversity and also doesn't seem to understand that drugs numb pain. She's not clever enough in terms of critical thinking to understand why prohibition didn't work then and doesn't work now. It's either a very stupid person or, as I suspect someone being goady and facetious. Don't poke the bear.

No, but the fact that any legal drugs are safer, as in tested etc…those who were abstaining for fear of the unknown will now be more inclined to try it out.
I certainly wasn’t referring to the imbecilic idea of sticking crack or heroin in the local shops!

And my point is that under current system I can sit next to that guy whilst simultaneously he can be failed by societies approach to dealing with his problems. I also think that drugs are so ubiquitous that anyone that wants to do them, does them. You can get a wide array of high quality drugs delivered to your door quicker than you can get an Amazon prime.

Also if that was your mentality you're simply not a common garden drug user type, you'd just have done them anyway. Most people that do drugs do them in the knowledge that they are harmful and potentially fatal. Persistent drug use and self harm are very closely intertwined phenomena

the fact that any legal drugs are safer,

Like alcohol and tobacco you mean ?

Legal alcohol and tobacco are definitely safer than illegal tobacco and alcohol

People particularly with less money sometimes buy illicit tobacco from 'a man down the pub'. Often made abroad in places with less regulation and more harmful levels of nicotine or added chemicals