Page 7 | Something needs to be done about drugs in UK

RegretMisery · 2024-03-26T12:56:23+00:00

Drugs are killing healthy young people. How is it that a drug dealer is not tried as a murderer? It's not limited to class. It could be your own son or daughter. You know how many people in Singapore die from overdoses? Almost none, because drugs are actually illegal there.

IIdentifyAsInnocent · 26/03/2024 15:16

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:05

what worked for you?

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I got treatment in prison. I was in for shoplifting food for my son. I got on a methadone script. I got our and put on a drug rehabilitation requirement. I got a lot of support and counselling. I was supported to start volunteering and eventually got a job.

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:17

LlynTegid · 26/03/2024 15:14

One thing that might reduce drug taking, even for a short period of time, is if you had to pass drug tests (taken over a period of time) before you could have a driving licence, or if you had been banned from driving.

I also agree about tackling matters which can drive people towards drugs, homelessness, the slow judicial system, prostitution, for example.

God I wish I had drug tested him. Don't know why I didn't think of it.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 26/03/2024 15:17

Good for you @IIdentifyAsInnocent

titbumwillypoo · 26/03/2024 15:18

Pireck · Today 15:06
So many people so 'hip'to be saying decriminalise all drugs. Oh you're soooo open minded. Anyone who wants to sit around smoking weed and snorting coke is a fucking joke, it needs to be made to look as stupid as it is.
So you don't drive, drink alcohol, tea or coffee or take any prescription meds because people who do need to made to look as stupid as it is!

IIdentifyAsInnocent · 26/03/2024 15:18

@RegretMisery basically, it took more than just stopping taking drugs. It took help to address my past, it took stability of housing. It took being respected and loved and finally respecting myself and living myself.

ilovesooty · 26/03/2024 15:19

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/03/2024 14:54

I have not been able to obtain any info for if NARCAN works on reversing opioid OD if there are other drugs present.

I haven't;t RTFT but these ignorant 'reckons' piss me off too much and I end up posting too soon. You don't know enough to have an opinion. Everyone is entitled to one but ignorance is killing people.

Firstly on the above. I am naloxone trained. They won't reverse benzos or alcohol so if that's the main thing killing the person, they are dead. Unless you can get an ambulance to them very quickly. Naloxone also needs to be used carefully. You can inject or nasally administer it, the person can seem fine, but the dose they took may mean they fall back into OD if they don't get more doses/medical care.

On harm reduction and treatment. Harm reduction has been fucked up in Canada. Canada has a habit of doing something that another country did excellently, and doing it with less money, missing pieces, poorly administered and making things worse. It's like antibiotics; for it to work, you have to do it properly.

You need:

Decriminalisation of all drugs
Properly funded treatment and housing
Properly funded healthcare
Properly funded MH care
Safe supply
Safe use
Supportive second stage housing
'Dry' accommodation which is properly dry, not damp

Last, but completely ignored, proper judicial and support systems that deal with the actual cause of drug addiction, male violence. I worked in treatment and drug and alcohol services and most of the people i worked with had adverse childhood experiences that stemmed from DV, CSA and PTSD, almost always from male violence. Stop that, you stop addiction.

As someone who worked in drug services and criminal justice for years, this is spot on. Take note OP.

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:20

You can't have a sensible discussion about this whilst lumping all illegal drugs in one category. The case for making say magic mushrooms or cannabis legal is entirely different to making the case for heroin or for cocaine.

OneTC · 26/03/2024 15:23

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:20

You can't have a sensible discussion about this whilst lumping all illegal drugs in one category. The case for making say magic mushrooms or cannabis legal is entirely different to making the case for heroin or for cocaine.

Agreed, they should start with heroin and crack

SerendipityJane · 26/03/2024 15:24

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:20

You can't have a sensible discussion about this whilst lumping all illegal drugs in one category. The case for making say magic mushrooms or cannabis legal is entirely different to making the case for heroin or for cocaine.

True. However it's an inevitable function of the fact that the two biggest harmful drugs in society - alcohol and tobacco - have to be ring fenced from the debate. Leads to some quite imaginative rhetorical contortions

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:24

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:20

You can't have a sensible discussion about this whilst lumping all illegal drugs in one category. The case for making say magic mushrooms or cannabis legal is entirely different to making the case for heroin or for cocaine.

I'm not. Opiates and ketamine and benzos are the worst.

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CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:26

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:24

I'm not. Opiates and ketamine and benzos are the worst.

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Correct and coke once it gets its claws into someone.

SerendipityJane · 26/03/2024 15:26

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:24

I'm not. Opiates and ketamine and benzos are the worst.

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I have a friend who is addicted to benzos. Has been for 30 years. Impossible to quit. No one tells you that when they dish them out.

(The Ashton method didn't work because their GP had no interest in helping them quit).

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:29

SerendipityJane · 26/03/2024 15:26

I have a friend who is addicted to benzos. Has been for 30 years. Impossible to quit. No one tells you that when they dish them out.

(The Ashton method didn't work because their GP had no interest in helping them quit).

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Why are they impossible to quit?

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DaftFlerken · 26/03/2024 15:31

Drug dealers are not intentionally trying to murder their customers & it is the users personal choice to take the drugs, nobody is forcing them to do it

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:32

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:29

Why are they impossible to quit?

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With prolonged use dosage has to be continually increased to have the desired effect and the withdrawal becomes unbearable.

StrongasSixpence · 26/03/2024 15:32

Pireck · 26/03/2024 15:06

So many people so 'hip'to be saying decriminalise all drugs. Oh you're soooo open minded. Anyone who wants to sit around smoking weed and snorting coke is a fucking joke, it needs to be made to look as stupid as it is.

What an excellent idea. Telling people their chosen vice looks stupid always makes them quit.

No one is saying just decriminalise all drugs then leave people to it. That is similar to what Canada have done and its a stupid policy, doomed to failure in the same way as prohibition. What is being advocated for is selected legalisation, control and medicalisation of addiction services with social programmes in support. That is pretty much the only thing with widespread evidence of decreasing drug deaths and social harms caused by addiction.

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:36

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:32

With prolonged use dosage has to be continually increased to have the desired effect and the withdrawal becomes unbearable.

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If you're only an occasional user and wouldn't necessarily have withdrawals from daily use, are they still as hard to quit?

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CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:41

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:36

If you're only an occasional user and wouldn't necessarily have withdrawals from daily use, are they still as hard to quit?

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No. As you'd expect the more frequent and longer you're taking them the harder it becomes. I've witnessed someone (try) to go through it. It's shocking, frightening and heartbraking.

StrongasSixpence · 26/03/2024 15:41

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:24

I'm not. Opiates and ketamine and benzos are the worst.

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Ketamine is very helpful therapeutically. Often given to babies and trauma patients as it keeps them still and disassociated while also relieving pain.

It's a bloody awful drug to be on long term though. I know lots who take it recreationally and I hate it. Makes me really nervous as I know one young person it killed and know of others who it has disabled (permenant bladder problems). Long term users need serious support to get off it similar to opioid addicts and more people need to understand the dangers and side effects. I fear its mostly seen as harmless.

Again, the solution is better education in the first place and then mental health support and addiction services. Prohibition doesn't make it any less accessible but it does make it less safe as you have no idea what it's cut with.

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:43

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:41

No. As you'd expect the more frequent and longer you're taking them the harder it becomes. I've witnessed someone (try) to go through it. It's shocking, frightening and heartbraking.

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So, if you don't take benzos for a few weeks, after just taking them at weekends and such, would you get withdrawals after?

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Myyearmytime · 26/03/2024 15:44

Legalised and tax .
Save a fortune on save a fortune on policing the gangs .
Make fortune on taxes.

Legislation on safe drugs .
Nhs knows what it is treating .

MumblesParty · 26/03/2024 15:46

GoodnightAdeline · 26/03/2024 13:39

To everyone saying drugs should be legalised, would you be happy to sit on a bus next to a bloke high on crack, with all the unpredictable behaviour that brings? It’s not illegal for the sake of the addict but also because of the effect people high on drugs have on society. They’re dangerous, they commit crimes, they frighten people. They don’t care about anyone but themselves. I don’t want that legalised.

I agree.
People always trot out the argument for decriminalising drugs, as if this will somehow magically make the problem go away. Alcohol is legal, but still causes no end of problems, illness, antisocial behaviour, violence, crime etc. Imagine if all the people who currently get wasted on alcohol every night decided to start doing cocaine and heroin too! Just because something might be legal, and not mixed with talc or whatever, doesn't stop it affecting behaviour.
I hate the fact that weed has been decriminalised. I hate smelling it as I walk through town, and I hate even more the thought that the drivers next to me on the motorway might be stoned!

CroftonWillow · 26/03/2024 15:47

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:43

So, if you don't take benzos for a few weeks, after just taking them at weekends and such, would you get withdrawals after?

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If you can get through the week without experiencing any withdrawal and the desire to take them to restore your equilibreum then no you're not physically addicted.

Original poster

RegretMisery · 26/03/2024 15:49

@MrsTerryPratchett at the point that somebodys body is cold is it too late to usa NARCAN? how many hours after taking an OD of methadone do you have before its too late for NARCAN?

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ThePerfectDog · 26/03/2024 15:50

neverbeenskiing · 26/03/2024 13:41

It's very difficult to have a nuanced debate about drugs in this country. People jump straight to "drugs are evil, lock all the dealers up and throw away the key" which conveniently ignores the fact that recreational drugs, whatever you think about them, serve a purpose for the user. Not enough people understand the environmental, social and psychological causes of addiction. For example, research has shown that a history of child sexual abuse is extremely common among heroin addicts, in fact some form of childhood abuse/neglect is so prevalent its almost universal in heroin users. That means that almost everyone who uses heroin is trying to escape childhood trauma. It is also a proven fact that many people with severe and enduring Mental Health issues such as psychosis start using illegal drugs in an attempt to self-medicate and manage their symptoms. Investing in social care services, education, early years services and preventative Mental Health services would be much more effective in the long term in reducing reliance on recreational drugs (you'll never eradicate it completely) than tougher criminal sentences which, let's face it, just creates more drug problems within our already failing prison system. But it's easy for politicians to spout soundbites about being "tough on crime" rather than investing in protecting the most vulnerable in society.

It's also hugely simplistic to label all drug dealers as evil murderers and completely fails to acknowledge the extent to which vulnerable and desperate people are often exploited and groomed into offending behaviour. I have worked with 11 year old children who are technically "drug dealers", people with severe Mental Health issues and Learning Disabilities who have been tricked or threatened into dealing, and women whose abusive partners have forced them to deal for them. Throwing those people in prison and villifying them as murderers might satisfy a base desire for revenge or fool us into thinking we're all safer in the short term but it does nothing to address the real problems. Again, we have seen over a decade of the services that are meant to help and support those most at risk of being drawn into addiction and criminality being cut to the bone and the Government don't give a shit about the consequences of this for ordinary people.

Sorry for the rant but this is a massive source of frustration for me due to professional and personal experience (not me, but there's a lot of addiction in my family historically) and I do wish it was possible to have a more reasoned debate around these issues.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your post, I think the leap to ‘legalize it’ without consideration of the reality of this is equally as problematic.