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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to think most "gifted" children come from well off, affluent families?

347 replies

Blueballoons1 · 25/03/2024 10:57

Eg start instruments or sports very early, can afford top tuition, often a parent has the skills to teach the dc at home, they have the time & money to travel around the country for events.. Parents oversee practice is done at home.. Whereas they may well be quite medicore compared to a child with raw talent whose parents just cannot afford what it takes..
I just feel for music, sports or academics money & an affluent background is part of the parcel for the majority of "gifted kids"..

OP posts:
Singleandproud · 26/03/2024 14:57

The question is also how do the vast majority of people know that they are gifted. Talented in music, sport and art is something visual and obvious but academically gifted is different. Traditionally G&T school programmes were the top 10% of a school cohort but obviously that could mean vastly different things in different catchments.

My DD was tested using the Wisc-V5 as part of her autism assessment but until then I (and her teachers) just thought she was a bright, studious child rather than extremely gifted which she actually is.

user1745 · 26/03/2024 14:59

I don't think it's necessarily about wealth (though that helps) but more about the kinds of things that are valued in the child's family, e.g reading, critical thinking, creativity, physical activity.

I think any child from any background might have a natural talent for something, but for that to develop the child needs to be in the right environment. A natural talent for art is unlikely to flourish in a family and/or school environment that teaches the child that art isn't important, and the same for any other talent.

Sometimes it can be the school that identifies and encourages a natural talent rather than the family.

TerryTarmac · 26/03/2024 15:20

‘Gifted’ is an overused term. Esp in younger kids. The ‘gifted and talented’ register gave many parents the illusion that they were raising a genius/prodigy.

Very few kids are gifted. By sixth form some are brighter than others but are rarely exceptional.

Regardless of definition, the most ‘successful’ kids usually have supportive parents, a stable home life and some money behind them. Let’s not pretend otherwise.

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 15:37

DancesLikeAFairy · 26/03/2024 10:42

My son's school told me that he is academically gifted, when he was in infant school. In senior school, two music teachers told me on separate occasions that he is musically gifted. We were a single parent family at the time and living on the breadline, due to my chronic ill-health and no financial support from his father for my son. My son was self taught on piano, guitar and saxophone. My son chose to study music at University, where he was often told that he is an outstanding guitarist. My opinion is that a gifted, or talented child, will show their enthusiasm and passion and whether or not they're pushed, will excel in what they want to do. Likewise, pushy parents who believe that their child is exceptional at music, sport etc, won't see the results they believe that they should, if that child is mediocre and has to be encouraged to rehearse or practice. Schools usually support passionate kids and there are facilities for the kid to excel. If a child wants to commit to something, nothing will stop them. If a child is pushed only because of a privileged background, then resentment follows.
I feel the post is negative and judgemental.

But how can a very poor gifted child fund their talent! They can push themselves to the limit but if they have no one & no funds to bring them to a match or tournament 3 hours away that cost 80 quid to enter it doesn't matter how gifted they are.. It ain't happening!

OP posts:
Jensword · 26/03/2024 16:07

It's not purely a question of affluence. There is a genetic component. Intelligence, athleticism, etc. are inherited traits. People who are gifted in those areas are more likely to be high earners and so their genetically advantaged offspring Are subsequently more likely to have money invested in fostering their talents. They are likely to attend better schools due to living in a higher income area or being sent to public school. There is also an advantage to being educated in an environment where the majority of the children come from similarly well off, academically focussed homes. Children from well off homes don't have to divide their focus with worries about being hungry, cold, or at risk of homelessness and so can concentrate on fulfilling their potential. Advantages breed advantages and inequalities intensify.

zingally · 26/03/2024 16:17

There's also a big genetic component.
Intelligent, gifted people, generally end up with partners who are similar. And thus produce intelligent, gifted children.

twistyizzy · 26/03/2024 16:18

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 14:54

They do them but the majority of county, regional & national teams are made up of private school kids.
Same with skiing, lacrosse, polo, rugby etc..

Yep very true. DDs private school has been churning out England team rugby players for decades. Rugby is dominated by grammar + private school kids. They also have a significant number of national hockey players but not to the same extent as rugby.

Newgirls · 26/03/2024 16:20

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 14:54

They do them but the majority of county, regional & national teams are made up of private school kids.
Same with skiing, lacrosse, polo, rugby etc..

I don’t think that’s true for many sports. I know our two local private schools stopped competing in local athletics, netball and football as they were always beaten. Very awkward. If you look at our Olympic swim and athletics it’s mixed backgrounds. Rugby and rowing yes more likely to be from single sex private schools with facilities.

Tinysoxxx · 26/03/2024 16:23

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 14:53

Yes but there's probably much more talented players out there with more talent & no means which really is quite sad.
She has Olympic dreams with very ambitious parents who will do anything to make it happen & have the means to.

But if she’s not good enough, she’s not good enough. I know several adults that tell me they were exceptional players whilst at school (hockey, rugby, football) but ‘failed’ at making it at national level. Her parents have got to be careful that they are setting realistic expectations because they can’t make it happen.

This private v state school only gets you so far as there’s good and bad of both. And not all affluent parents send their children to private school. Oxbridge often seems to held up as a yardstick for giftedness on here. At Oxbridge, there are studies to show state school pupils do better than private school pupils that enter with the same grades. I think this is due to more private school culture and pupils applying and wanting to get in more than anything else. My ‘good’ state school educated DCs got over the grades stated but didn’t want to go to Oxbridge so didn’t apply.

I have taught in both sectors but the handful of truly exceptional students have all been in state schools. This is because I have taught more in state schools. For example, one boy got 5 A stars at A Level by teaching himself 2 whilst in school doing the other 3. Bloody nightmare and a joy to teach as he questioned everything in minute detail. He was a very happy soul as well. Which was actually what made him outstanding as a person.

I attended a private (posh public) school as a child. There was one exceptionally gifted child there. He became very famous in his field but due to his undignified behaviour has little respect from other people and no family. Can’t imagine he lives a happy life.

Peppadog · 26/03/2024 16:31

Most footballers come from poorer backgrounds. Many successful Hollywood actors have come from poverty, many with extremely traumatic or deprived backgrounds.
I personally think that the affluent approach of over scheduling kids, pushing them to do music/sport driving them round the country etc can kill their own personal drive and make it harder for them as adults, as they have got so used to having all their spare time planned out for them.
I also don't think intense sporting competition as a child is always a good thing. I was one of those kids and I didn't really enjoy it due to the extreme pressure I put on myself. I was competing internationally from age 12 to 17. I dropped it competitively as an adult. However many of the lower level players as children developed their passion later and still play now and love it.
There is a lot of satisfaction in finding your own path and passions even if that means waiting till adulthood to find them.

OriginalStarWars · 26/03/2024 16:39

Mixed. My niece is a gifted musician. Her talent was recognised within 6 months of taking up the instrument courtesy of a scheme that supported children on free school meals. She still plays as an adult and is recognised as a great player, but was never able to have lessons beyond those provided by school. A tutor early on suggested she should apply for a music scholarship and she did. She got it, but there were still costs and she could not take it up. A boy she played with who was recognised as talented, but not quite as good as her, got a music scholarship and as an adult is recognised as a gifted player in his instrument.

Money matters.

OriginalStarWars · 26/03/2024 16:52

zingally · 26/03/2024 16:17

There's also a big genetic component.
Intelligent, gifted people, generally end up with partners who are similar. And thus produce intelligent, gifted children.

This shows a lack of understanding of genetics. There is a drift towards the mean genetically. The real difference is upbringing and opportunities.

mustardrarebit · 26/03/2024 19:15

My husband and his sister are academically and musically gifted. They certainly aren't affluent. Dh was downright lazy at school, turned up and aced exams (top 5 in HK), but all of his teachers expected him to fail because he was a terrible pupil. Didn't stop his achieving 2 overseas university scholarships.
Our kids, fortunately, seem to have his brain but not his attitude to school! Due to DH's health we aren't wealthy, don't pay for extra tuition etc. Daughter has just earned a local scholarship and is applying for a government funded place at a music academy boarding school, something we could never afford. They are the naturally gifted people that scholarships are designed to help. Money hasn't entered into their success, although they do have a lot of parental support.

Winter2020 · 26/03/2024 19:23

alpenguin · 25/03/2024 11:21

My kids are academically gifted. We are not by any stretch wealthy. We do value education.

We can’t afford music lessons but both our kids show aptitude for music that doesn’t mean they would or wouldn’t be gifted.

what you’re discussing are children who have the means to practice and develop a skill to a higher standard than those who cannot. That’s not what being gifted is

We were daunted by the cost of piano lessons so my son's introduction to learning music, which he was interested in, was Simply Piano on an ipad and an electric keyboard. The keyboard would probably be about £40 new but you could get one second hand. I thought Simply Piano was expensive but worked out only the cost of about 2 piano lessons for a year so we gave it a go. My son was very self motivated to use it and he worked his way through it for a couple of years and when he did start lessons (at age 10) he was nearly ready to take his grade 1 (which is not easy).

It is expensive supporting his interest - but school music lessons which he uses for his second instrument are £7.50 each week for a shared lesson and we pay £37 odd a term to hire an instrument. So that is within the reach of many. He also attends a free orchestra as well as a low cost one. He attends a junior conservatoire now which would be fully funded below a certain income level but we do have to pay the bulk of the fees - and we are not high earners at all but we are a two income household.

I guess I'm saying while you might not be able to afford a £40 a week piano lesson at this point if your kids are muscial you could try to see what you can do to start them off.

Whether my child (or any child) is "gifted" , or talented/high achieving is a matter of opinion but I was very conscious when my child was reading Charlie and Lola books at 2 (nearly 3 side of 2 for those books) that people held opinions like "pushy parents making kids learn to read before school" but we could not have stopped him learning to read. He read every sign on the roads/in the shops/the "rules" at soft play instigated by him - that's just what he liked to do.

My son definitely learns "differently" and can be playing complex music while asking what is for tea. He does well at school getting "higher understanding" or whatever the term is without doing any work at home and has whizzed through muscial grades without excessive practice - rarely practicing more than 20 mins in a day.

What I can say is he doesn't get his aptitude for learning from me and I do think his brain is "different". I do agree with people commenting that gifted and neuro diversity can be closely linked. The ability to learn in an extra-ordinary way kind of makes it inevitable that the brain is not ordinary and is different.

I think this is where "gifted" is different from a kid that achieves exactly the same outcomes but does it by studying morning, noon and night. Not that I am knocking that kid. If that kid is self motivated and wants to do that then they are great.

My younger son does have autism, has little verbal communication and is at special school (but he can play twinkle twinkle little star by working it out himself at the same age my big son could) so perhaps there may be something in the gene mix towards difference of brain and learning.

I believe gifted kids exist (did you see Lucy who won The Piano TV programme?) but that with their extra-ordinary talents there are likely to be differences that also include challenges. Families with gifted children are most likely also supporting challenges that are not necessarily visible.

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 21:02

mustardrarebit · 26/03/2024 19:15

My husband and his sister are academically and musically gifted. They certainly aren't affluent. Dh was downright lazy at school, turned up and aced exams (top 5 in HK), but all of his teachers expected him to fail because he was a terrible pupil. Didn't stop his achieving 2 overseas university scholarships.
Our kids, fortunately, seem to have his brain but not his attitude to school! Due to DH's health we aren't wealthy, don't pay for extra tuition etc. Daughter has just earned a local scholarship and is applying for a government funded place at a music academy boarding school, something we could never afford. They are the naturally gifted people that scholarships are designed to help. Money hasn't entered into their success, although they do have a lot of parental support.

You see they have one of the key components, supportive parents.

OP posts:
Newgirls · 26/03/2024 21:04

Winter2020 · 26/03/2024 19:23

We were daunted by the cost of piano lessons so my son's introduction to learning music, which he was interested in, was Simply Piano on an ipad and an electric keyboard. The keyboard would probably be about £40 new but you could get one second hand. I thought Simply Piano was expensive but worked out only the cost of about 2 piano lessons for a year so we gave it a go. My son was very self motivated to use it and he worked his way through it for a couple of years and when he did start lessons (at age 10) he was nearly ready to take his grade 1 (which is not easy).

It is expensive supporting his interest - but school music lessons which he uses for his second instrument are £7.50 each week for a shared lesson and we pay £37 odd a term to hire an instrument. So that is within the reach of many. He also attends a free orchestra as well as a low cost one. He attends a junior conservatoire now which would be fully funded below a certain income level but we do have to pay the bulk of the fees - and we are not high earners at all but we are a two income household.

I guess I'm saying while you might not be able to afford a £40 a week piano lesson at this point if your kids are muscial you could try to see what you can do to start them off.

Whether my child (or any child) is "gifted" , or talented/high achieving is a matter of opinion but I was very conscious when my child was reading Charlie and Lola books at 2 (nearly 3 side of 2 for those books) that people held opinions like "pushy parents making kids learn to read before school" but we could not have stopped him learning to read. He read every sign on the roads/in the shops/the "rules" at soft play instigated by him - that's just what he liked to do.

My son definitely learns "differently" and can be playing complex music while asking what is for tea. He does well at school getting "higher understanding" or whatever the term is without doing any work at home and has whizzed through muscial grades without excessive practice - rarely practicing more than 20 mins in a day.

What I can say is he doesn't get his aptitude for learning from me and I do think his brain is "different". I do agree with people commenting that gifted and neuro diversity can be closely linked. The ability to learn in an extra-ordinary way kind of makes it inevitable that the brain is not ordinary and is different.

I think this is where "gifted" is different from a kid that achieves exactly the same outcomes but does it by studying morning, noon and night. Not that I am knocking that kid. If that kid is self motivated and wants to do that then they are great.

My younger son does have autism, has little verbal communication and is at special school (but he can play twinkle twinkle little star by working it out himself at the same age my big son could) so perhaps there may be something in the gene mix towards difference of brain and learning.

I believe gifted kids exist (did you see Lucy who won The Piano TV programme?) but that with their extra-ordinary talents there are likely to be differences that also include challenges. Families with gifted children are most likely also supporting challenges that are not necessarily visible.

Music university students would do online or in person piano lessons for less. Sounds like you are all sorted but might be worth exploring that if he needs more teaching

SD1978 · 26/03/2024 21:23

The fostering of giftedness, will occur better with money, so whilst a child may be naturally gifted, the opportunity to expand and work on it will be finance dependent I think

Anonymous2025 · 26/03/2024 22:00

Truly gifted ( or high potential children as that is the correct term ) are gifted from birth , sorry but that’s utter nonsense. If you talking about smart kids that parents have money for extra tuition etc those are not what I call gifted . 2 of my kids where dealing at 3 , full books etc , one is more academic the other and what I would call very intelligent the other is gifted with an IQ considerably higher too . They are called high potential children because although they have the ineert ability to learn much faster but that doesn’t always mean they are academic , they can be academic or good in music , arts etc but the ability to learn is much higher that just smart kids .
Its also very hard and with lots of issues at times

Tinysoxxx · 26/03/2024 22:06

2 of your kids were dealing at 3? No wonder they were inert.

mustardrarebit · 26/03/2024 23:49

Blueballoons1 · 26/03/2024 21:02

You see they have one of the key components, supportive parents.

Supportive parents don't make them affluent though. I'm not sure what throwing more money at them would achieve, above and beyond what they already have, which is a strong work ethic and tenacity.

IdaPrentice · 27/03/2024 00:11

An orchid and a daffodil both need the right nutrients, light, water etc to grow to their full potential.

But a daffodil can't change into an orchid, and vice versa.

Saschka · 27/03/2024 00:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Oh dear! 🤣

At least one person on here not gifted with much intelligence.

MaknaeLine · 27/03/2024 00:39

I have a raw talent for music and parents who did everything they could to cultivate this - paying for my lessons, encouraging me to practice, buying me a custom-made violin, ferrying me to orchestra rehearsals, concerts and exams.

Every single student I met at the music school I went to at weekends came from affluent, supportive families.

If you're not inherently musical you can't become a gifted musician regardless of your background. Competent through practice and determination, yes - but not gifted.

bctf123 · 27/03/2024 00:55

Ime stability makes a huge difference. I went to a private school paid for by Brown due to low parental income
The parents who struggled financially and took second jobs etc wasted their money because home was fraught with problems and unhappiness. The kids would have achieved the same academically
On the other hand, 5th highest GCSE maths score that year was in my state comp school. Lived in a little terrace house on a crowded street , doted on only brother. We have one of the best state selectives nearby and they didn't even know about it

MyNameIsFine · 27/03/2024 08:50

I think you are being unreasonable saying those children are just average. There's only so far money will take you if your child is just average
However, I still voted YANBU because I think social mobility us going down the pan in this country. Kids just don't get the opportunities in Sport, drama or music unless their parents have money. We won't get any more ballet dancers from the back street of Manchester because you can no longer pitch up on a Saturday and pay your 50p for the community class. I think children have more chance in academic because some people are so bright they can teach themselves.