To want to ignore the school recommendation?

[MoreBadNews88]

School has recommended my DS repeating reception year.

He is v happy boy and his behaviour has transformed recently. He was put on ASD waiting list at 3 due to some pretty concerning behaviour at nursery

Lots of routine and a great primary school means we have turned a corner. No more hitting or destroying things.

But he just is very behind. He can't write anything with a pencil. He's 5. He scribbles or smears. He recognises letters, speaks well and is great with numbers and maths but I can 100% see he's unusual.

Anyway they are gently suggesting he stay back a year. I do understand. But this will affect him for rest of school. He'll always be oldest by months and he's tall for his age so towers over kids now. He will stand out like a sore thumb - I don't care but I worry he will as he gets older. And all his friends will move without him and he definitely understands enough to be upset by that

Anyone have same recommendation and go against it? Or have any advice? My instinct is saying no, but I know I need to listen to the experts

If he is behind with basics much better to repeat. Being oldest/tallest can often be an advantage. Even if he does stand out better that than him falling further behind, which will also affect his confidence.

He has made lots of progress with behaviour this year, now he knows what is expected he will likely be ready to learn and hopefully do really well.

The change to Y1 is a big one, it’s true.

It’s so hard making these decisions for our children as we just don’t have a way of knowing what will turn out for the best! My niece moved to a private school in Y2, and the school recommended she repeated Y2. She’s now in Y5 and still behind, it wasn’t a solution & has really impacted on her self esteem - she has a Dec birthday so is far & away oldest in the class, and very tall with it! In retrospect my SIL feels she should have stayed with her age group and been supported there.

Several kids in my son’s year were held back at some point (private progressive school) - lots of reasons, eg being an August baby, moving schools/countries, a couple of SEN reasons (dyslexia, late diagnosis of ASD/ADHD). For most this happened somewhere between years 4-7. Other kids are vaguely aware and really don’t care. All on track with their year group peers and happy. If holding him back now in Reception means he progresses seamlessly, I’d take the advice.

My then 'D'H didn't want DS to repeat either. I had my own doubt's at first, but I ended up pushing it through as XH wouldn't engage at all with the process and just didn't like the idea School and his therapists OT, speech therapist, psychologist, paediatrican all felt it was the right choice for him. I can't say I was completely sold on the idea myself and the parents of other Autistic kids i spoke to felt it was risky as he might not narrow the gap and end up a year older in the same place developmental. So I committed to doing more than just repeating the year. I did everything I could to make it count.

He did a lot of work with therapists and I did a lot at home, focused on alphabet and counting and writing his name, lots of fine motor practice. Weekly speech therapy. It was very much worth it. He narrowed the gap in a lot of areas and ended up coming out ahead in maths. Went from not being able to count to doing year 3 maths in 18 months. Writing is still an ongoing issue, partly because his thumbs hyper flexi, reading took a lot to catch up and I had to a lot at home. It was 💯 worth it. He made lots of friends his second time round. Much nicer cohort too. The first cohort he was in had a group of kids who made fun of him. One of my worries if we didn't repeat was that he'd get overwhelmed and shut down and be unable to learn anything. He was ready the second time around and is doing well in mainstream. He was one of the youngest, is now one of the oldest but not far off from the other's age wise now.

I wouldn't wait for public OT. A private OT can work directly with him on his fine motor skills and gross motor if that's an issue too. Both my DS had lagging gross and fine motor skills. The school might not engage with a private OT but that doesn't mean they can't help him learn to write. One type of writing my boys both loved was in shaving foam, just cheap no name brand ones. I was wondering if writing with a finger like this was even applicable to writing with a pen, but their OT said it was good practice for fine motor skills and for knowing how the shapes bend. Could also do sand or mud. Autistic kids often have problems with working memory or spiky learning profiles which can affect skills acquisition.

You're not a prize idiot, he's progressing, he's gone from angry, probably because he was overwhelmed, to now enjoying school. Now he's feeling comfortable in the environment he has a chance to engage. That's good.

You're ahead of where a lot of parent's are at this age. You know what the issues are, you've gone on waiting lists. you're engaging with the school, you're working to get him what he needs. That's all good stuff. No one really knows what reality is for him yet, he's barley begun. Hopefully your DH will get on board and actually engage with school and diagnosis process and everything else involved. It's less hard with both of you involved and he can't make informed decisions about what's best for his child if he won't engage.

Thank you @EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness so much. Its given me a great deal of reassurance. I need to do more at home. With a difficult DH, a younger DC, and a full time job it's hard - and DS also becomes so frustrated so quickly and may scrunch up the paper etc - but I've got to commit to doing more at home and as you say making the extra year really count.

I do think he spent the whole first term settling and maybe only now is starting to attempt learning.

In my ignorance I had understood autistic kids as having extreme talents or abilities alongside the challenges but so far DS has found everything hard .

Anyway thank u. I feel determined to work it out and will purse private OT as you and others recommend

It’s better to be older by a year than thicker by a mile.

DS has three kids in his class that are a year older because their parents preferred to defer. He’s only in year 1 but no one so far has batted an eyelid.

But he just is very behind. He can't write anything with a pencil. He's 5. He scribbles or smears. He recognises letters, speaks well and is great with numbers and maths but I can 100% see he's unusual.

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if this has already been covered, but it might be worth asking for him to be assessed for dyspraxia/DCD as well as autism. The fact that he recognises letters but can't actually physically reproduce them on paper can be quite a common trait in dyspraxic children.

Ultimately, I have no advice on whether he should repeat the year at school, but I just wanted to say that from what you've said, he has clearly made loads and loads of progress with his behaviour and that you are obviously doing a really good job with him. The fact that he's good with maths, speaks well etc suggests he's an intelligent boy with a lot of strengths, even if there are some things that are hard for him.

Thanks for that @Kwasi

I thought I'd made my mind up that it was the right thing to do but just read this damming review https://educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/repeating-a-year

Don't try to 'catch him up' at home OP. You could do more harm than good. The school and you need to apply for an ECHP. I'm in Wales where the system is a lot more forgiving. I tried to get my child to repeat yr 2 but it didn't happen. However he had a statement (now ECHP) and a 121. He's in yr 11 now in a specialist base attached to a mainstream secondary and made far more progress than I ever thought he would. He couldn't read until yr 2.

What I found is that many children with ALN manage in mainstream primary with support but need specialist provision for secondary.

The help he gets should be based on need not diagnosis.

Ok.

So that review is damning but it does not necessarily mean it is the wrong decision for your son.

(I do feel a bit devil's advocate here).

In schooling systems where you have to reach a certain standard to move up, children who cannot cope with that are usually shipped out to special school.

So in Switzerland for example, everyone starts kindy. If you are not ready to move up you get the chance to repeat kindy. If you are not ready to move up then, you go to special school ( on the basis that mainstream does not work for you).

So imagine a disabled kid. They go to kindy, repeat the year, and then go to special school.

Is the academic results of kids that have repeated a year going to be below the other kids?

Of course it is. By definition they are the kids with learning disabilities etc.

So, in your situation, you have a kid who is clearly disabled. You are on the ASD list, there's obvious issues. So the question isn't is his achievement lower than the other kids - you already know it is.

The question is what is going to help him most?

It might be that sending him up to y1 helps him as it's a quieter more structured environment. It might be that repeating reception helps him as he gets a chance to build some of his skills. But the EEF foundation research reviews are for NT kids across a large number of school systems. They can't just be read like that.

You need to look at what works for kids with autism.

Why on earth would you want your very behind child to struggle. He isn't even at the start of reception level, and is simply miles from year 1. Keep him back a year and let him catch up.

This definitely chimes with my family’s experience.

In regards to the education endowment research they ask how reliable is this evidence? And then say it is not reliable! The security of the evidence around repeating a year is rated as low. I wouldn’t change your mind based on this at all.

Perhaps joining the summer born flexible admissions group on Facebook might help. I know your son isn’t a summer born but there’s lots of people who have asked schools to allow their child to repeat reception, some of them with additional needs. Someone might be able to give you some personal experiences to help you come to a decision.

Also, the research done by the EEF research is based on US data. Isn’t it the case there that children have to, potentially, repeat the same year over and over again until they ‘pass’? I imagine that would cause negative effects. That wouldn’t happen in the UK.

I would definitely pay for private OT etc.
Fwiw at the end of reception my DS couldnt really read well or write much. Suddenly in Y1 it all clicked and he can write stories and read (at an "average" level) and gets 100% often in spelling tests. Kids with ASD often dont have linear learning processes, maybe see how it goes in summer term? Generally i am pro starting school later (if DS were a few months younger i would have deferred) but your school doesnt seem to be varying the help they give, just doing it all again? Im not sure how that will help.

This study relates more specifically to children held back in secondary school (where it says negative effects are a little more marked than earlier); you are considering restarting a child with only a few terms under his belt.

If you are ambivalent, ask to go in and speak to the SEN and HT at his school, maybe even contact your HV?

I also second the comment made above about checking for dyspraxia and would add dyslexia? Really common in ASD children - and there is loads of support for both. I have several friends with kids with both of these and/or ASD - all got good GCSEs/A Levels and are at/heading to uni as they were very much supported at school and at home. One of them attends a school where OT is offered within the school day on site and this has been a real boost for their DS and those peers that need it. It’s about getting the right support at the earliest opportunity. Good luck.

DD23 (20) has dyspraxia and really struggled at the start of school because of poor fine motor skills. She had 2 years of OT input and that really helped. Your DS struggling to hold a pencil sounds like poor fine motor skills. Building up the motor skills doesn't need to be a chore or difficult. At OT we played with Lego and plasticine. There were games like Jenga and stacking chairs. It's not going to do him any harm to encourage playing with things like that.

I repeated a year in primary school and I am none the worse for it. There was a huge age gap in my year at high school because of different school starting ages across Scotland and people from abroad joining the school with different levels of schooling.

That should read "DD2 (20)"

but your child has made so much progress! You are a proud mummy and your little one’s achievements should be celebrated. In September, some reception children can write their names but lots of children can’t hold a pencil or write their name and we support them over the year. It sounds like your child has made amazing progress and the school are wanting to build on this next year.

You sound like a wonderful mummy. 💜

I’m sure this review is based on children who are NT. Each child is unique too and everyone’s need is different. What works for one ND child won’t work for another ND child. 🙂

Those studies have been done in the USA though where the culture is very very different to here and no national curriculum.
My DD is repeating Y10 and has an EHCP. It has it's pros and cons for sure. I wouldn't do it without full EP, OT and SALT assessments that showed exactly what's going wrong and what needs to be done to remedy it. If there are underlying issues for your son and the school is hoping some more time in reception will fix it, without any other interventions, that may well not be the case.
Bear in mind repeating the year IS an intervention and a big one at that. It's been amazing for my DD, even in secondary but I wouldn't do it without all the assessments in place and a clear understanding what's causing the delays.

Arrange a further meeting with the Senco and headteacher. Make sure your DH also attends.

Ask exactly what the school is proposing. Is it that DS remains officially in his chronological year-group so next year he is a Year 1 child that the school is placing in a Reception class, or are they proposing to apply to the LA to change his year-group so next year he is a Reception child again?

The difference will be key as DS gets older as this will determine when he goes to secondary school, and when he can or must leave school. If the school keeps him in Reception without officially changing his cohort, you may find that at some point he is put back into his chronological year group. If he changes school, there would be no guarantee that the new school would be able or willing to put the same arrangement into place.

Make your decision based on what is best for DS, not who the teacher may be next year. The last date for teachers to resign before the start of next academic year is still two months away so plenty of time for things to change.

As pp have said, apply for an EHCP Needs Assessment as soon as you can.