To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

Not to mention the far reaching implications of the pandemic.

I think there’s many factors at play but I don’t think Covid can be downplayed.

Those who were too young to understand what was happening, so the earliest years of primary now, were deprived of crucial socialization in their early childhood. And possibly plonked in front of screens more than they would have been otherwise as nowhere was open to go to. Even seeing everyone wearing masks out and about, would have delayed their development in understanding speech and facial expressions.

Those who were old enough to understand lived with a prolonged fear of being struck down by a killer virus, or of their family members getting it. It was all over the news, it was all anyone talked about. Living with prolonged fear at such a young age WILL have had an effect on their developing brains. They also missed a lot of time in school, and got out of the mentality that it was just something they had to do. As someone who experienced fear over a long time, way before Covid, I can assure you it has a huge effect on your mind, and the after effects never really go away.

They have done long term studies into adhd medication and found no lasting effects. I don’t worry about giving my child adhd medication any more than I worry about vaccinations or calpol- it is extremely beneficial in its place.

(and my child was not raised on screens- I didn’t even watch tv with him in the room when he was small. And I didn’t have a phone so I wasn’t scrolling and ignoring him!

He has ADHD because I have ADHD. I enforce screen free time and exercise everyday -although he never stops moving so the exercise bit isn’t difficult!)

In reply to PoorLittleEngland, My view is that if a lot of older people, say 30-50s, were on the medication which they should /could be on , a lot more of these people would be in full time work.

We seem to only have started recognising SEN children now with ADHD and autism, in the last 10-15 years - this means that all of the older people who have these traits are in the majority unrecognised and untreated. I volunteer locally and the regular workers who are there because they are, or appear to be, incapable of getting a paid job (anxiety, mild learning difficulties, trouble socialising etc etc) could be capable if given support and medication. But unless someone can advocate for them this isn't going to happen.

Thank you. My ASD teen has been violent towards zero teachers or students since starting school 10 years ago. Any time you see a thread on MN about violent behaviour it’s either oh they might have SEN and other half are saying oh that’s perfectly normal.

However, I do think many people who either work with or are parents to ND children do not understand the purpose of regulating and what it does for the child, because so many suggest screens as a way to manage the child’s behaviour. A screen is NOT regulating them if they melt down upon its removal this would suggest that child is dysregulated if they are lashing out. It might shut them up while using it but it’s not calming them. An activity that helps regulate them leaves the child calm afterwards. An example in our house is jumping on the trampoline. The sensory input is exactly what he needs in order to regulate. For another ASD child it could be something completely different.

I dont know why we have schools there like huge daycare buildings now.
I never liked schools and im not keen on teachers either they always have their class pets.
Some teachers are bullies.
But for the few nice ones i can understand why they are leaving teaching.
Kids and parents have become so entitled.
And then theres the parents that think their child cant do wrong.
School gate mum friends planning play dates etc.
Sometimes I think whos going to school you or your kids.
Teachers tell a child off the child will tell parents they have been shouted at all day parents call it abuse.
In my area i dont know whos who at the school gates are they parents or the grandparents.

I think the kids coming through now have missed out on a large chunk of life due to covid. My daughter is nearly 8 and struggles terribly with separation anxiety. When she should have been in nursery, mixing with other children she was at home with me for 6 months! And then another 3 months during reception, plus countless weeks here and there isolating or not having enough teachers in school etc. Things weren't normal for nearly 2 years and I think some children are behind in their development from this.
Also some parents couldn't give a toss and if you mix the 2 up it's a complete disaster. I hope you're OK x

I do think it is really hard to distinguish though if this is due to COVID or just how your daughter would've been anyway. For a lot of kids, COVID was beneficial in creating more secure family relationships as kids were with family a lot. I'm not saying all, but for a lot, esp those on furlough, that was the case. This has been beneficial for them when they're back school. The more secure the attachment the less anxiety the child has.
I guess it's my issue with the COVID thing, it's really not possible to know for sure if it's COVID or would've been the case anyway. Lots of kids are just quite clingy.

I think there’s something in this…. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon where we’re encouraged to put “MY feelings, MY boundaries, MY triggers” before anything else. Self care is so important but should go hand in hand with politeness and consideration- not at the expense of them.

It's parents that are at fault. 100%
No respect or consideration for others, littering, anti social behaviour, they don't have manners themselves so don't teach their kids either. Lazy bastards.

This is always said on these threads ad infinitum- but clearly it isn’t true of all, or even most parents.

Its daft to pretend that there aren’t massive structural problems in education.

I’ll be shot down for this, but both parents working ridiculous hours and not actually spending quality time teaching their children how to behave, eat at a table without an iPad, potty train has a lot to do with it. Some of those who do spend time with their children are constantly on their phones rather than communicating.

Is that a dig at older parents or grandparents helping out? I don’t see the link with behaviour either way.

Parents have always organised play dates…

Not a dig just an opinion.

The people I know who let their kids eat at the table with iPads definitely do not work.

So so true!

Utter rubbish to keep on saying this. We sit down at the table for dinner EVERY night as a family! I'm at work when the kids are at school and by the time they get home I've generally finished!

Agreed. It was a really odd set of opinions. Especially saying they aren't keen on teachers given the nature of the thread. Arranging play dates?! How very dare they!!

But I had no TA at all in any of my primary school classes 30-35 years ago, not even reception - it was just one teacher and 25-30 kids.

Kids and teachers managed then... 🤷‍♀️

Thank you so much for such an informative reply. I do feel that in contrast we are doing our small children a real disservice by not encouraging them to stretch their minds and in particular engage with nature. X

It really is.

I have no idea why they're trying to get children to learn things at a much earlier age. My DS is in year 3 and the spellings they have are so hard! I'm pretty sure I was doing that sort of level in year 6.

And times tables; they now have to learn them all to be assessed at the end of year 4. Again, when I was at school, it was the end of year 6. And he's learning quite complicated fractions that I don't think I did until year 7.

I'm pretty intelligent; had a reading age of 16 at 11, went to grammar school and a RG university to do a science. Not learning my times tables until year six didn't hold me back, so why the immense pressure on children to do more at such a ridiculously young age?

I’ve seen a big difference in behaviour, parenting, emotional readiness, impact of covid lockdowns, impact of cost of living, expectations in terms of standards etc in 26 years.
Not all teachers were with out TAs 30 years ago. However, it would be interesting to see if teachers who had classes 30 years ago alone, would notice any difference going back in to class now and whether they would agree that it could be managed. I think there is a big difference based on my experiences since 1998.
To be clear though, this is the situation - teachers are ‘managing’ without TAs but it’s very, very hard work and if there was more support, things could be done better.

@Forgiveme totally agree. Writing is a core part of what I do at work and has been since I left uni 20 years ago - I loathe the focus on grammar - spag and all the bollocks they do in year 6 - fronted adverbials in year 2 !! I complained about that - not that there was any point. It's all deathly and joyless - they would be better off just letting kids read a lot with most of the time they spend learning all the really really dull formal english they do instead. Or - better still - letting them run around, play, use their imaginations - be physical and happy instead of sedentary and anxious.

@Forgiveme you are right! The curriculum shifted in 2014. Things done in secondary are now expectations for Year 6 children.

Teaching was a different world then.

Children with significant SEND weren’t in mainstream so mainstream teachers didn’t have children with eg high need ASD/ADHD or significant SEMH needs in their class. We have children needing hoists, PEG feeds and alternative communication systems in our classes. The class teacher is often expected to meet all of their needs alone, plus ensure everyone else is making constant progress in continually adapted lessons tailor-made to individuals.

Children were virtually all toilet trained in mainstream then, so teachers weren’t trying to change nappies, soiled pupils or manage this need with regular reminders, checks, charts, monitoring fluid intake etc

No Ofsted so the pressure of Deep dives, observations, single-word judgement with forced academisation and job losses for a poor result were unheard of.

Curriculum expectations were totally different so teachers weren’t trying to teach an unsuitable curriculum to their class because Michael Gove decided 8 years ago, it would be a great idea to try to recreate a 1950s-style public school classroom across the county.

Funding was organised so that teachers were paid centrally and it didn’t matter what pay grade they were on. Now schools have to sort their own very limited budgets and heads can’t afford to have expensive teachers, so are forced to remove them. This is often done by telling teachers they are out of date and below par and need to go on capability.

It’s impossible to directly compare education now and then and say, ‘well, my teachers didn’t have a TA and didn't moan’.

My son who is well behaved (in school anyway!) and generally finds life pretty easy (no neurodiversity/ no anxiety, just gets on with it all) - started crying in year six and begging not to go in - that is how painfully boring it was.

Such a tragic waste of kids lives and time. And no wonder we have huge obesity problem when kids are forced to sit down all day - and actually shamed /told off if they wriggle and move - despite that being totally natural.