To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

If childcare were responsible for the fairly sudden decline in behaviour of children it would have become apparent about 30 years ago. Think of the US where there’s no maternity leave. In the U.K. most women take at least a year. I know very very few who have gone to full time childcare before then.

I also hate that SEN is automatically blamed. There’s an increase in SEN but I think that’s a separate issue. Although I do believe we are labelling some things as SEN that have different causes, mainly neglect and trauma. The dc with diagnosed SEN that I know, even one with profound needs, do not hit teachers, swear at teachers, hit other children or thrown things. They are not disruptive in class. Their struggles impact them. It’s not a given that all children with SEN are wildly disruptive!

I think there is some truth in the poster who says that sure start wasn't always accessed by the people it was intended for.

However, I have always thought that sure start was monopolised by middle-class women. If you walk into one of these places and feel out of place, it's hard to come back again.

Me, I'm brazen and they can all fuck off. I always knew my kid was the best, but I'm atypical. It's really hard when you feel you're being politely frozen out.

Many of you will have felt this at some time in their mummy life, whether it's the weigh ins, the school run, the kids parties. This feeling that they're a group and you don;t belong. It would be even harder in a place where you may want to seek support and feel vulnerable, like sure start.

I can't imagine that anyone who denies the impact of COVID had the experience that my family, and so many families I know, had. It was an absolute perfect storm that massively impacted my parenting, despite how hard I tried.
Trying to home school 2 primary aged children, one of whom is autistic, and both parents holding down stressful full time jobs involving lots of phone calls/zoom. Not working was financially not an option.
Plus a nursery aged child who was sometimes in nursery but more often than not, nursery was closed.
Schools requiring screen use to do the work, screens all day becoming normalised for everyone.
No emotional support, no resources, no real freedom and outside activities.
My standards became bare minimum, absolute survival. I was a wreck. I don't think I've recovered. The kids saw us stressed, depressed, lonely, anxious. Weekends were spent zoning out after weekdays of high stress.
After lockdown, planning a day out with the kids seemed an incredibly difficult task, booking stuff, no spontaneity. Still can't just turn up at places now. Prior to lockdown, weekends were full of adventures. We're only just getting back to that point, but now DC1 is a teen and not as interested.
And I say all this as a parent who is hugely invested in my kids, I do all the research, try and have clear boundaries, limit screens and junk food, enforce homework, value play and stories and music. My kids are, largely, well behaved at school. But those 2 years broke my family and that's the truth. Kids suffered. No wonder they're anxious and reactive.

Legal duty of care to protect staff and workers.

My daughter came home yesterday saying a child with learning difficulties attacked another child and the teacher in class. So no-one could do maths.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved.

I'm not sure its schools so much as it is parents. Nowadays parents abdicate their responsibilities and expect schools to raise their kids. At the same time they go into fits of rage if anyone scolds 'little Jimmy' or tells him off. Parents nowadays as well as their kids have become so entitled (You just have to read some of the posts on mumsnet). So I think its more of a parent problem (maybe they need to be licensed) than a school problem.

Your post is so interesting because we’re always being told that the UK puts too much pressure on children in the early years. However whilst I LOVED running around and playing aged 5/6, I also really enjoyed learning to write/doing sums etc. I loathed and still loathe “free style “ learning… it’s far too exhausting as it puts pressure on children to decide. I saw with my own eyes how my DD changed from being really interested in learning at her private nursery/reception, to being apathetic at her outstanding state primary.
Europeans might not start formal school til 6, but you can bet that they will have a good idea of numeracy and reading by the time they start.

There are I think a number of issues.
Low expectations from parents is certainly an issue. If you look at those lists of what children should be able to do at certain ages you can see over time they have got easier.
Over stimulated babies, toddlers and children. There is this idea that children need to be constantly stimulated. They really do not. I have sat with babies on a patch of grass as they spend ages being fascinated by this new thing grass. Everything is new to babies in the world around them. They do not need to be rushed from class to class.
Poverty, poor housing and over stressed parents all put stress on a family that children pick up on and react to. All these issues are increasing.
Poor parenting with the idea that children should never feel upset or angry.
Lack of exercise. And not organised sport, but just running around playing type of exercise.
Parents not understanding that it can take a long time to teach a child something. You see it in toilet training with the idea if they do not get it in a few days, they are not ready. But with every skill some children pick it up easily, and some take lots of teaching. Some children can talk really young, others need lots of help and support. We do not just say - oh that child is not developmentally ready to talk yet. We recognise they need more support to be able to talk.

But the main thing is screens. Screens used by parents instead of interacting with children. Children and even babies interacting with screens instead of adults and other children. And covid did normalise the use of screens for even tiny children.

I am old enough to remember the very public debate when Teletubbies was first aired. This was aimed at engaging very young children and there were real concerns about the impact of encouraging very young children to watch TV. The debate seems almost quaint now.
It horrifies me to see tiny children given screens to look at. It destroys concentration at a time when we should be building the ability to concentrate.

Not schools so much as society, if you ask me. We live in a toxic environment for children. But nobody can wave a magic wand so that Covid didn’t happen, the cost of living crisis (and all the family stress that goes with it) disappears, and make parents interact with their children more than their devices.

I want to cry when I think of the poor, troubled generation we are raising.

Really? They seem to be ruling the roost and getting it all their own way! It's the teachers I feel sorry for!

There hasn’t. It’s just easier to blame parents for all the problems in society.

I think there has actually. I know it’s fashionable to pretend nothing ever changes, that people and society have always been the same, but they can and do change.

Have you not read all the posts on here by early years professionals lamenting modern parenting?

It's a perfect storm, excessive screen time with content that fries children's brain, screen time being a lot more socially acceptable since Covid, cost of living crisis meaning fewer families can afford enriching activities and lifestyle, parents working around the clock, never switching off due to WFH and flex working blurring boundaries between private and work life, parents spending hours on SM rather than interacting with their kids.

But it's not just the children. Grown ups are behaving in selfish, impatient and anti social ways. Covid contributed but the digital 'revolution' is undermining existing social etiquette. I am concerned about what screen time does to people's and especially young kids' brain health. Very worrying.

@izimbra have you missed that OP teaches in a private school?
I have spoken to someone in my social circle who teaches reception in the posh part of our City. She says the number of children without basic skills has increased every year, These are children from middle class backgrounds, not children from a deprived estate.

Generally, in society, there is less focus on manners and being considerate of others.

@GoodnightAdeline I agree we are seeing major changes in parenting. The main changes are use of screen time even for tiny children, lower expectations of children tied in with the idea of being developmentally ready, lack of free play and run around exercise with even school lunchtimes drastically cut, and the idea we should treat children like mini adults.

In order to start class 1 in Poland (age 6/7 depending on what parents decide) you have to be cleared by an ed psych. The test is free and available to all children and takes around 1.5hrs. It tests their cognitive ability as well as social and physical development. It's by no means a perfect system and its pretty overwhelmed with the influx of Ukrainian children but it is far far more than the UK has. Every school and pre school in Poland has an ed psych and SALT on site! National curriculum is developed by Ed Psychs and teachers with 20+ years of experience, not politicians.

Yes and all the “happy parents happy child” talk.
I mean if the parents are in distress then yes, absolutely.
But I see it used on here time and time again as a way to justify prioritising adult wants over what’s best for the child.

What sort of cognitive things would they test? For example are children of 6-7 expected to be able to read different words/count etc?
I remember seeing a documentary where an English naturalist visited Poland and the children in one school wanted to know the English names of specific trees ( eg oak/beech etc). He was amazed firstly by their grasp of English and secondly their thirst for specific knowledge.
I wonder what Poles feel about the educational experience in the UK?

Ive noticed a stark difference in nursery as a mum.

My first 2 girls were in nursery 6 and 7 years ago ( pre school nursery at their school) and it was lovely with zero issues, my 3rd girl started the same nursery last year and she has been scratched, bitten and hit on multiple occasions by multiple children and its an ongoing issue.

The nursery teacher who ive known for 7 years and has been the key worker for y 3 children honestly looks so stressed and frazzled all the time, she is the most loveliest woman but seems absolutely shocked and appalled by the behavior.

One child said something to my child that the nursery were so shocked about that the parents were called, the teacher wouldnt even repeat what was said but said to me it was "the most unkind thing she has ever heard"

These kids are 3 years old.

I'll PM you as it's a bit long. Essentially it's a cognitive ability test, than a OT type test that checks if they have a good pencil hold, can write in straight lines and trace patterns etc Parents and teachers have to feedback about social skills. Recognising syllables. For eg one of the tests has pictures of a house, a tree and a little girl. The child is asked how many syllables are in each word and they have to write the same number of lines to illustrate this. It's very similar to a full EP assessment with some bits of OT.

It's funny you mention trees. I moved here age 7 so went to pre school in Poland only. I distinctly remember learning all the names of trees, and having a test where we had to match the leaves the teacher brought in to the tree type. Same with birds. A lot of the EYFS curriculum there seems to be that sort of thing. The world around us etc. It sas interesting to me that kids in the UK didn't have that. I remember my teacher being surprised when I asked how to say oak tree in English.

As for parents, they're used to a very everything under one roof type of thing and they tend to trust the school until things go wrong. My sister is 15 and has severe dyslexia. My mum was adamant nothing was wrong as the school would say if there was and just use their ed psych and salt if there was. I had to explain to her that doesn't exist here! She's used to a very different system. If a child isn't managing in Poland, they get kept behind or sent to a special school. It's very embarrassing and parents do everything they can to make sure their kids keep up. The early provision for SEN is far far better. It's kind of flipped to the UK. The SEN provision there is bad the older the child is, whereas in the UK I feel like it gets better post 16. Anyway, I didn't grow up there so it's all anecdotal but for the most part, polish parents like that this system is less stressful but tend to be horrified at how under qualified and under resourced everything is. My mum was so shocked the senco isn't a child psychologist lol. She was also shocked parents aren't expected to buy anything in primary school and that books etc were provided throughout. It's not the norm at all in Poland, or the rest of Europe really. I do think not getting everything provided is probably a good way to keep parents invested. I think having everything handed to parents has made them really not appreciate a lot of what the UK education system provides.

@bobotothegogo
I've taught in schools where a raised eyebrow and a gentle chat was all that was needed for discipline. Wonderful! Sadly, not all children are the same (as I found out in my last but one school). And 'normal' methods just don't work with some children.....

But mobile phone use has increased and the software companies are now experts at hooking people into spending time online. All those crafty algorithms.

Plus the tv streaming - I keep hoping that people will get sick of watching stuff - who killed her the neighbour, the husband or the psychopath, over and over.
I struggle to find stuff now - perhaps it's too much choice.

On Radio 4 this morning they were talking about how fb etc use photo enhancing software so that you look more attractive than you are online. And don't need your permission to do it. Scary.

I totally agree that lots has changed! Society has changed massively in the last few decades. Who would dispute that.

And this is the problem in my opinion. That the world HAS changed but school and other institutions and expectations haven’t changed with it.

The way we raise children has changed. We are far more focused on wellbeing and children’s rights (rightly so) and parents in general are putting their children’s needs ahead of the needs of structures and systems. Of course there are feckless parents, there always has been! Not disputing that but to put ALL of the blame on modern parenting misses so much nuance. It misses the huge problems with poverty, COL crisis, the total lack of modernization in the education system, the advent of technology and its impact on the world etc.