To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

I agree to an extent but I think most people on here understand that and are mostly commenting about the toddlers in buggies clutching screens watching YouTube instead of the world around them, or the same when sitting eating out with their families. It's just everywhere, even in situations when it's really not needed.

I would never go back to school as a full-time teacher. Never. It was a dreadful experience.

Agree, very true for front line nhs staff too.

I wonder what it is about these two professions that lead to them being under staffed, under respected and supported? I wonder what they possibly have in common????

Yesss I've always loved the idea of grammar schools even though there's none in my area and I don't know anyone who's been to one. You're going to get a lot of heat for saying that though Mumsnet considers grammar school "unfair" even though it's great for poor smart kids but private school is ok ?
I don't get it but a whole school just for the smart kids where they won't get roasted for being "geeky nerds" and will actually be able to concentrate on their work would be great

Our neighbour’s son is 11 and autistic so stays up playing video games until gone midnight (we can see through DD’s window when I go to check on her before we go to bed). An 11 year old needs sleep to help develop but it’s easier to just let him play until he’s ready to turn it off. I don’t have autism but know lack of sleep make me horrible so a dc unable to regulate emotions combined with lack of sleep is setting him up to fail, surely? The dc I know for DDs’ primary who struggle to manage emotions and behaved badly were often (not always) the same ones who played fortnight from age 6 etc - the dc with no boundaries or parenting.

there was one family where the parents had good jobs but their sons were in nursery from 7am to 7pm and then breakfast club and afterschool club. They weren’t around to parent but continually tried to get a diagnosis because they couldn’t comprehend they were the issue… they lived in a big house and had anything they wanted so well behaved dc should be a given right? Nope.

I suspect nursery is more of a culprit than screens. If you came on Mumsnet 15 years ago the threads about return to work all featured advice about nurseries being bad for development for kids under 3, quoting various studies. Hence the age for free hours, which was based on these studies. Now it is just assumed kids will go straight after maternity leave ends. I can't imagine how stressful it is for such small children to go from a home environment to full time nursery days. It must impact development.

@Leah5678 i went to a grammar school and did well but I’m very aware that those who didn’t get in at age 11 were only given the possibility of achieving a B grade at GCSE because the non grammar schools only did foundation papers.

my dc now go to a comprehensive (no local grammar) and it’s so much better the dc can move up or down depending on their ability rather than a test they did at age 11. Lots achieve 7-9 grades at gcse.

@izimbra

I never said that I think children are made mentally ill from their phones but you cannot surely think that a 12 year old spending 12 hours a day on their phone (tiktok, Snapchat, Instagram) is going to be good for their mental health?

When parents don’t ever put boundaries in for the children then their children are completely uncontained and that is a horrible feeling for a child. I’ve had phone calls from parents threatening me because I won’t prescribe their child ADHD meds immediately, despite them having not had an assessment and also being too young for an assessment. I’ve had conversations with parents who will not put any sort of limits on their child’s internet use despite them being groomed. Parents will demand I medicate their autistic child who is having a meltdown whilst at the same time not doing anything to actually try and support and adapt to their neurodivergent child’s needs. I’ve seen children become so distressed that they’re slamming their heads off walls and attacking staff whilst their parents stood back smirking and laughing because they’re glad to see us getting hurt. I’ve seen parents be so engrossed in their own phones that they are not remotely interested in their own child.
Parents can be so quick to blame CAMHS, teachers, GPs, social workers, etc but parents play a role in this as well.
I know that it’s complex and that many many families are doing everything they possibly can to support their children and getting let down by the system. You’ll hear of the families from the fb groups but there is also another huge side of it that you won’t see.
I’m sorry your child is unwell. That must be absolutely horrific.

ODFOD

If your child is being roasted for being a geeky nerd and isn't able to concentrate on their work die to disruption than you've got a problem with behaviour in your school. Also, its not just low attaining kids that misbehave. Most comps set for almost all subjects by the time kids are in GCSE years anyway, you get your grammar dream in set 1.

This is actually really rude - like I've subjected my children to some kind of abuse. What do you propose people do with their children until the age of 3? Most of our friends are either doctors or lawyers and we all went back to work after mat leave to keep those careers. Our kids are well behaved but I see no rhyme or reason amongst our friends for who has badly or well behaved children...other than lack of discipline and giving into their demands from some of them.

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck your response matches your username! What's the issue with thinking nursery is a factor? I'm sure nursery is better than being with a carer with poor parenting skills, but for most kids being at home or in a home like environment has got to be better for under threes?

This is the dumbest shit I’ve seen on the internet today and I’ve spent 5 hours on Reddit.

With respect, this is bollocks. DH and I both work. Children are 4 and 7 and have been in full time child care or school+WRAP since I finished mat leave. They’re smart, well mannered, understand discipline and boundaries and are excelling academically and in extra curricular activities. Why do you think both parents working had an impact? I think parenting plays a huge role but genuinely think whether parents work or not is largely irrelevant in this.

Why are there so many children nowadays with SEN?

Ha ha madd me chuckle. I suspect what "must impact development" is having such a hugely judgmental and narrow minded caregiver.

@Simmy76349 what do I propose people do with kids until they are three? There's obviously lots of different approaches. Both parents go part time, parents work shifts around each other, use family and friends for childcare, get a childminder, get a nanny are some solutions.

Most people work 40 years plus. If you did chose an option that impacted your hours at work it's a small proportion of those years impacted.

Your post brings back memories of people saying 'I wouldn't let MY child do that!' when my daughter who had PTSD (from being raped at 14) and BPD was aggressively and repeatedly breaching every boundary we put in place.

I remember going to CAMHS and pleading for help. Eventually the head psychologist muttered 'well that does sound a bit 'conducty' (ie conduct disorder), and referred us to the Michael Rutter Centre at the Maudsley, where we finally got the help we needed, and my daughter got expert therapy, only took two years of what amounted to living in an actual war zone - leaving my other two kids with a diagnosis of PTSD years on.

Every parent of a struggling teen knows that excessive phone use is toxic.

But the judgement and cluelessness of CAMHS workers is more toxic,

Parents of severely mentally ill children are on their knees. I'm amazed there aren't more suicides among parents because the suffering is unbearable. That's why I'm so triggered by posts like yours.

Wow. I assume you weren't a "career person". Really you need to get a reality check.

I guess we were just really lucky to have such amazing kids and careers!! Lucky old us.

I’ve honestly wondered about this. I’ve definitely noticed a decline in my brain power. It’s like the brain fog I had after covid never left. I think I could definitely tick most boxes for adhd symptoms now but I know I don’t have it as it wasn’t present in childhood. Dh gets periods of terrible brain fog after having serious long covid. We caught it before vaccines became available.

I strongly disagree. The children that have been at nursery or (decent) childminder tend to be much more independent, resilient and socially edept than their home-raised counterparts. They tend to be better at reasoning and problem solving. Better at turn taking and conflict resolution. More compassionate and empathetic.

Even if I wanted to be a SAHP, I would send my child to nursery or childcare to ensure they had the best start possible. And that has been true at least since the 90s. In the 50s, probably not so much because people still had 'the village' to support with child rearing.

Nursery is quite often the only positive influence in many children's development. Especially social development.

It is linked to mobile phones as kids are used to short bursts of entertainment that constantly change . If we could teach a lesson in 60x 1minute chunks they may concentrate.

Wow people so quick to jump on anyone suggesting widespread full time childcare (40+ hours) from age 1 might be relevant in some way! I use nursery for my kids but absolutely agree that on a societal level, most kids spending the majority of their week in a nursery and then breakfast club, school, after school club for years is not great for child development. Yes people want careers - fine. Obviously though, it is a massive change in how children have tradionally been brought up and from the child's point of view, is less than ideal. Lots of kids are basically growing up being taken care of by young staff - who constantly change - in a institutionalised environment. People so quick to be offended instead of being able to think critically and wonder if this is really good for kids. Yes, it might be unavoidable for lots of parents but it is also going to produce kids with much less time with a main caregiver who they have an emotional bond with and from who they learn morals/ develop an understanding of the world. Nursery will be good for kids who have chaotic home lives but I think full time nursery is worse for kids who would otherwise be looking after by a loving family.member that the child is attached to. People so, so defensive and want to be offended. As I say, I use nursery but I can see how factory farming childhood for the majority of kids is going to change how kids behave.

Yet, I guarantee every single EYFS teacher would recommend nursery. And give plenty of anecdotes of the children who haven't been to nursery being the 'more challenging' children.

I found this podcast really interesting delving into child behaviours and the impact of today's lifestyle and parenting on kids
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/happy-place/id1353058891?i=1000649518688

Its the Fearn cotton one with a child psychologist