To think it’s very hard to live in the uk without inheritance or family money?

[Lifesucksthenyoudie]

Just that really. Social mobility seems almost impossible at the moment without a head start. I earn a decent salary (Dh doesn’t but that’s another post) but my standard of living is so much worse than my parents and my mother didn’t work until we were in secondary school and even then part time for peanuts. Nursery fees and mortgage alone wipe us out. I haven’t inherited any money (large family, no chance) and feel a bit stuck. Not after sympathy just interested to see if others feel a bit trapped. Why is our society geared up this way?

@Sususudio
Not suggesting that you should do so of course, but I do know someone who has changed both her names (to a very generic English name) and she seems to have gone from strength to strength in her professional life. Every time I open up Linkedin she is on there!

Honestly what people consider as standard these days is bonkers . People expect to have a two car , detached house and at least two holidays a year to be considered average where in fact it's absolutely not.
There is a reply problem with the next generation who view all these things as standard and their 'right' rather than extreme luxury .

Both me and my dh were very lucky to have gone to university but after that got nothing from out parents. We held off having kids for a few years so we could save for a house deposit and I went back to work after 6 months in Mat leave:
We're now comfortable with all of the above but it required hard work by both of us to get there for nearly 20 years .

No inheritance or family money for me or DH. He came from a middle class background but I grew up in a rented council flat, my dad worked in a shop and claims pension credit now. DH and I have a very comfortable life, a 4 bed house in London and 2 dc in private school, we are going to Florida for our Easter holiday. Most of our income comes from DH's salary who is talented in a niche field.

I do think that people have slightly lost sight of the idea that everything (especially time) has an opportunity cost.

For example, you can’t:

Take a gap year;
A four year degree including a year abroad with all the extra expenses that entails;
Relax over all your university summers, going to festivals and seeing friends;
Go travelling when you graduate for a year or two;
Come home and wait around for a bit while you decide on your direction;
Embark on an expensive postgraduate course to ‘retrain’ in your chosen career;

…then wake up in your late twenties surprised that you have student loans up to your ears and your friend who started work at 21 is now in a much better position than you are.

@Sususudio
Congratulations to your DS, he sounds amazing. Which subject did he go on to study?

I am interested to know more about what he did and when his mindset changed?

My MIL took things really slow, studied in europe where they didn't charge fees so common to take the odd semester off at university or take more years than needed, worked as a secretary after coming to London.

But she still bought a flat in London at 27 when she married, same age as me. Her ex Dh was older but he very much belonged to the unambitious camp though he was an assidious saver and lived with family. They were staunchly anti materialistic though they did buy property.

I started planning home ownership from the moment i graduated from university and got married. Dh in particular was very career and money driven and switched to working for an investment bank when he realized he could earn a bigger salary. We did buy at the same age but we needed to be 1000 times more ambitious than the previous generation.

MIL is a bit perplexed by us tbh, she even calls us yuppies. There is this kind of disconnect with many ordinary people in the previous generation, we no longer share the same values and they are used to a far gentler pace of life. But we have to do what we do to live in the same postcode as them though probably will never live in the bigger houses they do.

Super interesting responses. Thank you. I don’t think I’m entitled or have lavish tastes. I work hard full time but have very little to show for it after bills. No foreign holidays. No takeouts. I do think the housing situ is awful and a real barrier to moving up atm.

Nursery is definitely an issue but it is only temporary.

I partly agree with what you say. My mum didn't work much when I was young but we still had a semi detached house, car etc. My dad had a decent job but we didn't have all the things people expect today.
I only went abroad once in my childhood. Most things we had, we only bought once. Like music players and televisions and video recorders. There wasn't a new updated one to buy every couple of years. Our hobbies were cheap, barely costing anything compared to what I've spent on my children over the years. We barely ever went to restaurants.

The housing market has got way out of control though. However, I think social mobility is still possible if you know what you want and how to get it. Such as, studying for the right career, rather than just doing a degree with no outcome in mind. My son did this and now has a great job.

I might inherit some money when I'm about 70 but I doubt that will have much impact on the path my life takes by then.

Re. Nurseries

Yes, only temporary.

But you could be losing 4 years pension contributions, seniority at work etc.

That counts. Compound interest!!

I know what you mean. My parents were both teachers it the 1970s and I think their quality of life meant that they overall had much more stable and hopeful lives than probably two people in a similar position (no inheritance etc, first generation to go to University) would have today.

They worked abroad for a few years (helped conduct an academic educational study in African countries). Then came back to permanent roles in good schools and were on the property ladder in a nice flat in a nice area within a couple of years. They had little to no savings when they returned because they given local living expenses plus a small stipend whilst abroad.

I’m including things like job security, the number of hours their jobs took (including commute) and the amount of hours they had left for family life and their own interests, the size/location of home they could afford, the general quality/durability of goods like clothes and furnishings etc in that assessment.

They divorced the 1980s so everything went a bit skew whiff then.

I inherited some money (enough for a deposit) from my mum which made an huge difference at the time and DP earns an enormous salary.

And I’d say on that we have a similar standard of living materially in many ways, in terms of things like where we can afford property.

We’ve got more money for luxuries, but the quality of goods isn’t as good for many ordinary things, so we replace stuff more often. We also got less time/security and more stress. So I think overall it’s about the same.

And I think we’re hugely lucky in that we’ve manage to manage to stand still overall compared to my parents.

Teachers in the 1970s were much better paid. Not many people had degrees.

Housing costs (not just mortgages, rents too) have spiralled out of control. Once housing costs take up the lions share of income, everything else becomes a struggle.

Housing has been prioritised an investment vehicle for overseas non-doms rather than a basic right to safe, appropriate and reliable shelter.

No rent controls or caps. No long term tenancy rights. Rights for tenants steadily whittled away while no fault evictions made easier.

Many Europeans rent rather than buy because its feasible to rent long term, raise a family etc without being kicked out annually because the landlord knows they can get 25% more.

Be angry about that instead of sniping about 'you just have to work hard and get a good job, look at me'.

I could run that argument - but I know paid tuition fees, a max assistance grant, a 20% university application rate and a stable job market helped - without those that well paid job would have been a pipe dream for me.

Working hard is no longer enough.

Tbh for us personally thats the part that has improved. Our salary goes quite far when it comes to takeaways and foreign holidays.

But this is mainly because a generation ago we would probably have afforded a semi detached in London which now costs £1.5 million.. That is something we can't buy at the moment even with a lot of saving and moving further out would incur us £10k a year combined in commuter fares (and its not that cheap outside london would mean another £1k on our mortgage in addition to commuting and having a car).

So we stay in our small flat, forgo the car cos we are in zone 3 and have a lot of holidays (city break every month) and meals out and overpay the mortgage. We might buy a bigger flat down the line but don't want to spend a lot more, not more than 3 times combined income certainly. The hit to our quality of life for that extra space isn't worth it while in previous generations you would have gotten a lot more space probably

Its different. We are luckier than most. But the point is we are still doing worse than the previous generation (or at least the same as Dh's mum who eschewed materialism and was on tax credits but still owned a london flat and then a scuzzy London terrace), which is a gap that forgoing the holidays or enjoying life would not fill.

In some ways dh doesn't see it as a step back. He says its different, previous generations got the houses, we got the holidays and the restaurants but live in a small flat.. I ask him about the people who work very hard but can't afford to buy any property or go on holiday and he doesn't have much of an answer

I think some of it comes down to expectations. My husband and I are now mortgage free (mid 50s and late 40s) which is an amazing position to be in, but we prioritised this and don't spend money on a lot of other things that other people prioritise.

We never have foreign holidays, we buy second-hand cars, don't spend much on events/trips/clothes, we don't drink/smoke, we don't spend ridiculous amounts on our children at Christmas and we have worked hard in moderate-paying jobs to get to this stage. For a while my husband was working two jobs (when the kids were small as we'd no family help with childcare) as well.

No inheritance or family money, no bank of mum and dad, just hard work and prioritised choices, but now we hope to be able to have an inheritance to pass on to our children.

Could you afford to buy your home today with your current salary. I can mainly because we bought in 2019. £120k combined income vs £425k flat.

I wouldn't need to scrimp to do this but you couldn't do it on less than 90-100k combined (two London average salaries and zero dependents) even if you didn't eat at all. That is getting the london average salary in your 20s. We did it but not everyone can. Logically half of the population can't and that is being optimistic.

It has spread to the rest of the country. Someone in county Durham i spoke to while on holiday told me rents were £1000 for rhe buyers of his house. That is very similar to what i am paying in London, as someone in the top 7% of uk households.

I am looking for a nursery for my 19 month old son . Any suggestions please

I agree with this, the fact that normal people cant afford normal homes is the biggest underlying factor, that's how it looks to me.
The wealthy & powerful who make the rules have money invested in property, all the better to exploit the rest of us. They arent going to derail their own gravy train.

How much was your house?

How much were you earning at the time?

How much was your deposit?

How did you save for your deposit?

I think it is tough these days, there certainly don't seem the opportunities for young people as existed in my day.
On the other hand we have become much greater consumers and have higher expectations. I grew up in a council house both parents worked, no car but most years a holiday in the UK or at least days out. Now people have expensive phones, designer labels, exotic holidays.
The answer is self development I was 21 before I got enough qualifications to go to uni. Got a profession did well and worked bloody hard at it all my life. I have enough now to at least leave my kids enough for a start in life, even though my eldest is approaching middle age!

I have neither family money nor inheritance.

I was the first person in my family to go to university and so with a degree, ambition and a supportive and equal partner - we've both built our careers and are very comfortable.

I hate reading all about how people my age, in their 50s, are mortgage free as they have scrimped and saved and been sensible with money. Whilst this is all very admirable, they forget to mention how they got a 100%mortgage and bought a house for 50k.

Its miles away from what young people are facing now. Its not even comparable.

I love the idea that people are struggling because they expect fancy lease cars, sky TV and foreign holidays that’s doing the rounds on this thread.

My car is 11 years old and I own it outright. I don’t have any paid subscriptions at all, not even a TV licence because I can’t justify the expense. I haven’t been on holiday for 7 years. I don’t eat out or have takeaways. I don’t go to the cinema. I go to the pub very occasionally, maybe once every couple of months to catch up with friends, and spend about £20. I cook everything from scratch, budgeting £45 for food each week. No Hello Fresh or Gusto. I have one light on at a time. I don’t run the oven very often because it’s expensive. I use the bath once or twice a year because it’s expensive. I have 2-3 minute showers. I rarely have the heating on, and if I do it’s only for an hour and it feels luxurious.

I live in the SE and most of my income goes on (shared ownership) housing and bills. If I was renting it would be even harder. I save anything left over but on an average salary it would take me 15-20 years to build up enough of a deposit to buy a flat in my part of the UK on the open market. By which point I’ll be in my 50s and will probably still be out of reach because house prices will undoubtably continue to rise.

It’s really irritating to be told I only have myself to blame and if only I did x y z I wouldn’t be struggling to afford a home. Some people are on another planet.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds

Our house is in what's term by marketing affordability margin - in 8 years we've lived here it's gone up by another 100,000K - doesn't matter to us we re-mortgage or sell up but it was one of the remaining pockets of affordability in UK for us - so how the fuck our kids will be able to get on in life.

I agree. I'm mid 40s and I appreciate Im luckier than those starting now. Im not sure how this poster's 40 YO son has been saving for decades for a house deposit and has had to resort to moving to Wales to get on the ladder. He's clearly been prioritising his money differently.

This:
“Our expectations are of a nice car - maybe more than one, foreign holidays, mortgaged home, latest mobile phones/gadgets streaming services. When actually our parents generation had none of those things and didn't expect them anyway and that enabled one parent to not work.....”

My parents were hard working but their desire for “stuff” and “trappings” was governed by earnings capability and looking after the pennies. We never went without but our horizons were limited and cars, holidays, tv sets and gadgets were not a part of our lives. They were of the “pull your belt in” generation which sadly is a saying unknown to many these days who with such entitlement attitudes wouldn’t know where to start anyway.