To think it’s very hard to live in the uk without inheritance or family money?

[Lifesucksthenyoudie]

Just that really. Social mobility seems almost impossible at the moment without a head start. I earn a decent salary (Dh doesn’t but that’s another post) but my standard of living is so much worse than my parents and my mother didn’t work until we were in secondary school and even then part time for peanuts. Nursery fees and mortgage alone wipe us out. I haven’t inherited any money (large family, no chance) and feel a bit stuck. Not after sympathy just interested to see if others feel a bit trapped. Why is our society geared up this way?

@notacooldad I'm speaking generally on the assumption, which is reasonable but may of course be wrong, that the general situation is applicable to your family. "My family are fortunate outliers" is not a good argument against national trends, but I can see it's reassuring as it allows you to ignore or deny the wider situation.

To these saying they worked hard, got a degree and saved up. How many of you had the opportunity to save up whilst living rent-free at your parents? Parents bailing you out at uni. Not everyone has that privilege.

I didn’t. I got student loans and paid the rest myself, I had weekend jobs whilst doing GCSEs and a levels and then worked every uni holiday and a bit during term time too. I didn’t get to live rent free at my parents during uni or after, I got a job and paid my own way. I bought my first house at 27, I’m now mid 30s and in our next house which is family sized, we have 2 DC. It’s doable.

I don't agree.

Neither my partner nor I have yet inherited (we both will). Neither of us have degrees, we earn c£110k pa between us, live in northwest England. Our mortgage is paid off. We're both massive spenders but we prioritise food and drink without watching the pennies.

I didn't have nursery fees as my late mum looked after my child. I remunerated her as she would have worked part time if not looking after my son but it was nothing like nursery fees.

We know that we'll both inherit but have future planned as if we wouldn't.

Nope it's from 2023
Government stats

Also in reply to pp about women not working.
The vast majority of women through the decades have worked, often whilst running a home
They did jobs that were fitted around children .
Just not the " big" job men did.
My gm had 3 cleaning jobs,my mother a teacher, my Auntie's worked in shops, one a Baker got up at 3am then took her dc to school, came home and cleaned etc
It's a tiny proportion of women who were traditional housewives in the 50s, 60s and 70s who did nothing but that.
It just wasn't recognised

That can't not affect the quality of life, we are all sharing about the same or a bit less each year. Whereas our parents or grandparents were sharing more each year. Look at the way quality of life has changed in China in the last 20 or 30 years people have swapped bicycles for cars.

This is the reason. Previous 'third-world' countries have developed, leading to a global redistribution of wealth and less in the pot to go round for the west (who have already been taking more than their fair share for centuries). What I'm hearing here is: 'Boo hoo, but we're British! This shouldn't happen to us'. Sadly, this doesn't cut it any more, as we don't have any special entitlement to more than our fair share of the world's resources (especially with such poor levels of education and productivity in any case, hence why we're doing less well than the US, but that's another topic).

I've been financially independent since 18, put myself through 2 degrees by working up to 30 hours a week alongside my studies.

I worked my socks off and took every opportunity going, did side step moves and volunteering until I was able to get into my career path and then sometimes was doing up to 70hour weeks.

I've never had inheritance and live far away from family. We were able to afford our house by buying a doer upper and doing a lot of the work ourselves.
My DH has since had an inheritance but well after and we don't use it for nursery fees.

I agree nursery fees are bonkers (ours are twice our mortgage). But other then those 2 big ones we live very cheaply month by month (our fuel bill is kept low by a wood burner). We do so in order to enjoy holidays. We should really move to a bigger house (2 bed currently) but we don't want the big mortgage and the next size up land tax in Scotland would be 13k alone (tax banding is different).

I think there are 2 aspects
1: many people aren't prepared to look at other areas of the country.
2: people have got used to low interest rates and the have what they want now lifestyle.

I think the problem is that people are fixated on owning their own property. They equate this with social mobility and success. Sadly house prices, particularly in the south, are out of reach for many - you'd definitely need two salaries and probably two high ones.

I think we have to change our mindset and expectations and those of our children. It should be the norm now to rent property. Of course the rent laws need changing, to give tenants the rights and protections they have in Europe.

Fwiw, I do own my own property, have had no parental help and am expecting no inheritance. I'm now of an age where my peers are getting inheritances and paying off their mortgages/buying second homes. I won't be able to help my children buy unless I downsize. (And still have a mortgage anyway). The way I did it was to go into a high earning career that I didn't particularly enjoy. It meant I could get on the property ladder (my partner at the time was in the same industry). I've told my children that's what they will need to do too if they want a flat in London. It's possible to do the same as I did (in 1994) today if you go into the same career (law).

If your partner isn’t earning much then yes, that is your issue. Also higher salaries often bring with them more responsibility. I looked after multi million pound accounts with an unwritten policy that any issues with the client were reported to me regardless of the time of day. I had a small team of people to manage. Stress was enormous and it was a means to give me the lifestyle I wanted. Wouldn’t get together with someone who had children/maintenance payments etc.

So now 30 odd years later it’s fine. I work part time now in a job which allows me to turn off my phone at 1730. I did have some inheritance but tbh partner and myself don’t need it to survive now.

There are so many threads on Mumsnet now with women wanting to be SAHP or threads with women being left with children and no career (and unmarried). I feeling like shaking them and saying please don’t be reliant on a man to provide for you or at least get married. Divorce rate is 50% and unmarried partnerships are worse. Have two close relatives who have done this one of which is now stuck abroad, lonely as hell but gave up her career because it seemed like a good idea (husband also wanted her to).

So YADBU.

@HelenHywater a shift in mindset away from property ownership would be possible if rents were fair, the rental sector offered affordable, long term opportunities to live securely but it doesn’t. It’s a shit alternative to home ownership. And despite you thinking there is a ‘fixation’ on home ownership the stats show it is declining and unaffordable for the majority once it slips down below the current 50%.

It's irrelevant what previous generations did, and what they could achieve on one salary. The world has changed and we need to change with it. I

"standard of living is so much worse than my parents"
Is this really true, or are our expectations so much better.
For example, we have so many things (smartTVs, mobile phones, computers, etc) that my generation (I am retired), did not have when growing up. But I am not saying we do not need them, far from it, but it means that our costs and expectations are now much higher.

I grew up in a lower class area. Poor family limited prospects.

I was able to buy a house at 22 for 24k no deposit required. ( I think dh and I earned around £7 an hour each) tax credits had just come in. We were able to give our kids experiences we never had- travel, extracurricular activities. I put myself through higher education meaning I could get a better paid job. Dh had job stability and worked his way up. We were able to save and buy a 4 bed house in a nicer area and protect our futures.
We earn much more now and I would say our children got a fairly middle class upbringing.

But the system supported us to do that. It doesn't any more.

@HelenHywater
I disagree I'm afraid!
People are fixated on appearing to have money.
Buying your own home is a pretty sensible approach rather than buying a car you can't afford or fake hair, eyelashes, nails and lips .
The person I know doing that is a 33 year old who is furious they don't own a house yet drives round in a 27K audi 😏
Renting in the UK is a terrible business, it's nothing like renting in other countries where you often rent for many years before retirement.
No way should we be pushing for that

I think it's more to do with the fact that a good standard of living (in line with what people consider today as good) requires 2 salaries.

It's very difficult to compare like for like because you'd have to restructure our lives. For example, most people lived close to amenities and their work place. There was little need for 2 cars. People didn't ask where you were going on holiday or invite you on extortionate hen parties so there was less pressure on not missing out.

Inherited money obviously gives you more options. I live in a similar sized house to where I grew up. Without inherited money we would be living in a more modest home

The car thing whereby you can ‘appear’ to have money is fairly new. My son’s last girlfriend was a nurse. She drove a brand new leased BMW. Lived at home with Mum and Dad. Said she couldn’t afford not to but she and son went on a few holidays a year whereas when I was growing up it was one holiday normally during August.

This is the reason. Previous 'third-world' countries have developed, leading to a global redistribution of wealth and less in the pot to go round for the west (who have already been taking more than their fair share for centuries).

Definitely in favour of this.

To these saying they worked hard, got a degree and saved up. How many of you had the opportunity to save up whilst living rent-free at your parents? Parents bailing you out at uni. Not everyone has that privilege.

Not an option open to me - and not usually done by my peers of any class. Most started work living private rents or occasional in places like London shared houses.

I also got no help or inheritance with deposit however wages were higher and rents cheaper so saving was possible - and that's what we did. Also possible to match up cheaper housing and work opportunities.

Wages have stagnated, rents and housing costs soared and a wealth of data saying social mobility is less than previous generations - not impossible but much harder.

The economic winds were behind our parents generation - they still had really hard times - grew up in poverty though still better conditions than their own parents grew up in.

We're in our late 40s - we do okay but aren't as well off as perhaps expected or generation before us in similar position were - but still likely in better position than generation below or our kids.

Economic winds are not with younger generations - doesn't mean we have to make out generations prior all had everything handed to them on a plate.

What's luck got to do with it? If you work hard then you work hard. That's it.

It's an absolute fallacy to correlate 'hard work' with good pay/a good standard of living. Loads of people on the lowest incomes do hard jobs - hospital cleaning, care work etc. It's really easy, if you're on a decent income, to assume that you deserve it and are simply working harder than everyone else, but chances are you're not. Salary isn't a meritocracy in this country. The better connected and yes, still higher class, you are, the more you'll earn. Middle class people typically earn more comfortable salaries than working class people, and do white collar rather than blue collar jobs. Some people break the mould of course but they are still the exceptions rather than the rule. As others have said, social mobility is currently going backwards.

The OP is correct and the UK is a tough place to live in right now if you're on a low income or god forbid have a disability or a chronic health problem.

A lot of posters here seem to live in cloud cuckoo land.

I was able to buy a home on my own when I was 25.

My daughter and partner, who now both have very similar jobs to what I had at the time, would not have had a hope in hell of buying the same home now.

I agree with you OP, but I also think that in this country a lot of people go into poorly paid careers with little thought to the future, perhaps because in the past each generation did better than their parents' generation without any special effort. The fact is that if you go into a poorly paid career, you're likely to have a low standard of living unless, as you say, you inherit a decent chunk of money at some point.

Case in point - many of my British friends (myself included) chose interesting subjects to study at uni - things like English, drama, history, art - but things that don't lead to well-paid careers. In contrast, Australian friends all studied things like business, accounting, economics, computer science - in other words subjects that lead to much better paid careers. And look at the careers that recent immigrants push their DC towards - medicine, law, business, finance. They don't do that by accident - they are intent on improving their lot in a strategic way and they understand that the key to upward mobility is education, hard work and choosing a career that is well-paid. You can do that from a low economic base, but you have to be smart at a young age and make the right choices early on.

I’m 38 have a good income, my husband earns more than I do but we are in a good financial position. Children are school aged so no childcare. We have 2 cars, a small mortgage because we bought a cheaper house and did it up. Have 1-2 abroad holidays per year and eat out, have days out when we choose and the kids have hobbies that cost. No family money or inheritance.
Both my parents worked too, not in jobs as well paid as mine and my husbands, I grew up in a smaller cheaper house with one car always used second hand and we had one abroad holiday per year, no meals out unless it was a special occasion, very few days out and by that I mean maybe once or twice a year, no hobbies, no expensive clothes. It was a different lifestyle. My parents considered a night out to be down the local pub, they still do. Now, we want to go out for our dinner midweek because we don’t fancy cooking, we want fancy restaurants and cocktail bars. Lifestyle expectations have changed. My parents lifestyle was much more frugal than mine is because their expectations were lower and there wasn’t as much choice. McDonald’s for example, I went there for my birthday, now I take my kids when I can’t be bothered cooking dinner. Expectations have changed, we want more now.

My mum lived through a war so I will always have had a better life overall than her. She then wasn't able to pursue an academic career as it just wasn't done in her family for a woman to do that. My DH and myself have at times had two jobs to get by. Now we are in professional careers so life is easier. Mortgage rates were 8% back then so things were tight. We have two girls. One spends money the minute she earns so always finds life hard and one saves like crazy and is off travelling later this year and I firmly believe she will find life less of a struggle because of her sensible attitude to money.

I reference that in my post. My Mum worked full time but in a role that wasn't mentally as stressful. So akin to care work.

My point is that standard of living is impacted as much by mental health as it is income. So I can work full time, same as my parents did. And yes I earn more money. But the trade off for that money is that the stressful nature of the role impacts on life outside of work far more than other full time jobs.

Yes I agree with this. Growing up I had one hobby, my children have multiple (expensive) hobbies. We ate out maybe 4 times a year on someone’s birthday, now my family eat out 2-4 times a month. I don’t think I even had a takeaway until I left home, but now we order a takeaway when we can’t be bothered to cook. We had one holiday a year, usually camping in wales but occasionally camping in France. My family now have multiple holidays and weekends away.