To allow a friendship that involves DS being regularly hit in the face?

[BrightHorizons24]

My DS is 12
He has a friend, aged 12, who he really likes, who hits him in the face - a lot.
But it is never in anger. Never accompanied by swearing or shouting or arguing. No insults. No accusations. No verbals whatsoever.
DS says they are standing together, maybe chatting, maybe eating their morning snack at break, or sitting at lunch together, there's no problem, no bad atmosphere or anything, and literally, suddenly, the friend's arm suddenly hits out and he hits DS in the face with the back of his hand. He quickly and suddenly raises his arm up and out and wacks the back of his hand in to DS's face. Hard enough to hurt DS every time it happens.
Sometimes the friend apologises straight away afterwards and says "Oops sorry I didn't mean to do that" then carries on as he was beforehand. He doesn't apologise in a mortified way, he apologises in a matter of fact way. Sometimes he doesn't apologise but says nothing and carries on normally as though absolutely nothing has happened.
Mostly, he hits DS, DS gets cross and walks away, and later in the day the friend passes DS in the school corridor and smiles at him, says "Hey dude!!" with a big bright smile and holds his hand out to DS's hand and gives his hand a "Bro" shake (this is DS's vocabulary, not mine!!). This is a few hours after hitting him in the face.
This friend initiates hanging out with DS at school, seeks him out socially outside of school, greets him enthusiastically when he sees him, hugs him, is always putting his arm round DS's shoulders, and displays many actions of being a good friend to DS. DS says he's great company, fun, enjoys hanging out with him, they get on really well.....but he regularly gets hit in the face by him.
DS says he always hits in exactly the same way - it is always 1 arm held out straight without any warning and it suddenly flies upwards or outwards with force and the back of hand hits in to DS's face, hard.
When DS says "WHY DID YOU JUST HIT ME???" because it's always completely out of the blue, the friend doesn't answer, goes quiet, puts his face/head down, and doesn't respond.
DS said that he walked up to him this week, there was something he needed to tell him, and he thought to himself "I'm gonna quickly say what I've got to say and then duck down". He did exactly that. And sure enough, the friend hit out hard with his arm and hand, DS quickly ducked, and missed getting hit, whilst the friend's arm/hand hit the air. DS walked off and there was no retaliation. The friend didn't come chasing after him to hit him or anything like that.
DS said this week "I'm used to being hit by him now, he's always done it, but it didn't used to be very often, but now it's getting much much worse and more frequent since we started secondary school."
They've been friends for 2 years.
DS also reports that when they're in a calm environment together, this friend is happy, fun, relaxed, chilled out and really lovely towards DS, generously shares stuff with him, tells DS he's a really great friend, etc. But DS says if they're in an environment that's over stimulating, like the noisy school canteen or any crowded busy noisy area at school, or outside of school, the friend gets quickly and visibly irritable, snappy, agitated, starts swearing.
This friend has quite bad tics. He suddenly pushes his head down, face down, his neck goes very rigid and his right arm bends across the front of his body and kind of locks, and his expression fixes in to an intense stare. It's hard to describe. DS says when he's doing it you can't communicate with him, he can't answer anyone who is talking to him at the time. DS used to tell me about this happening a lot, and then I saw it a few times for myself. It's definitely an involuntary thing.
Is it possible to hit someone involuntarily??
It's always 1 hard arm action/hit. Always just once. Never twice. It's never a punch, his hand is never in a punch position, his hand is always flat. And he never changes the rest of his body position or movement. He sits still, or stands still, and hits 1 arm out hard and fast, whilst his other arm stays still.
The other day, DS was standing in the school canteen at break eating his toast. The friend came up to him and stood next to him eating his snack. DS said it was noisy, busy, bustling in there like always. Without warning, the friend whacked DS in the face whilst he was eating, it really hurt him and he got angry and raised his voice at friend and said "Why did you just hit me?! You're embarrassing yourself! Everyone's looking at you now! Don't hit me!" DS said lots of kids saw what happened, lots of them were indeed looking at the friend, and an older boy said "Calm down man, what are you doing? Don't hit him (about DS), he's a nice kid." Another older boy said to the friend "Chill out dude! There's no need for that! Relax!". DS said friend went bright red in his face ("scarlet red" according to DS) and went quiet.
I really do not know how to parent this.
Obviously, I don't want anyone hitting my DS. But it never seems to be in an aggressive argumentative way.
DS is feeling really confused and I can see it's now starting to upset him. He keeps bringing it up at home and is really asking me for my advice about how to handle things when the friend hits him, and he is asking me if he should carry on being friends or if he should end the friendship. He's torn because he gets a lot out of the friendship - when he's not being hit!
I need to be really careful about what I model to my DS. It is never ever ok for someone to hit you. But DS values his friendship and they have a lot of really fun happy times together.
I can't discuss with the friend's parents, I don't know them at all.
I think what I'm asking mumsnet is, do I advise DS to stop being friends with this kid because it's never ok to be hit and also its not healthy to have a friend who is completely unpredictable in their behaviour, or is there a condition I've never heard of that causes children to do 1 single involuntary hard hitting out of the arm in to the face of another child who is standing or sitting next to them at the time, that is a condition that I should be sympathetic towards??
Has anyone got any experience of this?
**Just as an extra, DS has literally just a few mins ago told me, just after I've typed all this out, that last week this friend actually attacked him - barging him, hitting him, pushing him, and DS said "his face changed, it went weird " and said the friend was making "growling noises". DS said the friend was repeatedly hitting him with both hands so DS grabbed hold of both his wrists, held his arms down and said "STOP!" The friend carried on making strange noises but didn't fight or push back against DS holding his both his wrists down, DS held his wrists until he saw that the friend started to relax and calm down, then DS let go of him and walked away. The friend didn't do anything further, just stood there silently. DS has only just told me this!! Says it has never happened before.
What is going on?!

Leaving aside the growling attack which is more concerning, the question I think with the involuntary hitting is whether it is possible for your son to identify a trigger for this boy.

there is bound to be something.

If he can spot it coming, he can avoid it but otherwise this is not a space he needs to be in.

@Isittimeformynapyet but his arms don't do that when he is just walking around do they, so why on earth would they do it when he is stood next to someone? Because he walks over to do it to them obviously why does he not stand a distance away if he is concerned he would hit out at them, nope he stand there and suddenly whack. I have heared of tourettes no need to be so condescending. This sounds to much of a convenient excuse for selectively ahit behaviour.

This would not be ok for me. I'd have a quick email with form tutor and Senco about it.

Thanks. Everything you've said is 100% spot on. Thanks for being so insightful.

If this was my son I would tell him to hit back. I'm fed up of bullies like this getting away with their vile behaviour.

Why have none of the teachers done anything? He needs expelling for being a violent little scroat.

What a tricky situation to be in.

I think this is due his tics/Tourette's. The fact it's worse in stressful environments and your description of it sounds so much like it.

The good news is it can change and the boy can learn to control it/learn to do something else instead (called a competing response) that does not involve hurting another person.

The crucial part here is, does the boy have insight he is doing this? Do you know if they've ever spoken about it? Not at the time it happens when your son confronts his friend (totally understandable your son does this by the way). But another time when things are calm, to find out does the boy know he's doing it? Does he feel it coming on? Does he feel he has control over it? Sorry I'm getting carried away here, obviously your 12 year old boy wouldn't know to ask those questions bur do find out if they've ever talked about at a different time from it actually happening.

There is treatment available, medication and also psychological therapy but obviously depends if the boy has been diagnosed etc

You need to make the school aware of this if you haven't already done so. Even if the movements are involuntary its still doesn't make it OK. Please don't teach your son that he has to accept being hit, it doesn't matter what the root cause of it is it is never going to make it ok

He's not, in fact, violent at all. You should probably read the rest of the thread where people who aren't as judgemental as you have come up with a far more likely reason for it.

OP what have school said???? Many have asked you this and you keep not answering

The op does not want to answer what school has done because the likelihood is that she hasn’t spoken to them and that the kid does not do it in class or around teachers.

I would not be encouraging my son to armchair diagnose, provide support or identify his triggers.

@ntmdino hitting someone in the face (or anywhere else is violence. Its violence whether its carried out by someone with or without a "condition"
It still has the same result.

He is not violent - he can unintentionally do violent things, there is a significant difference...that being intent.

I presume, from the fact that you put "condition" in quotes, you don't believe that Tourettes is a thing?

Everything that's been posted lines up with the idea that he has Tourette Syndrome, whether diagnosed or not. Anybody recommending ostracising a 12yr old for that lacks empathy, pure and simple. And that's coming from somebody who's autistic.

Have a word with yourselves, all of you.

I 100% believe tourettes is real and feel very sad for anyone who has it. But the heck if I'd allow my child to be being walked everyday tourettes or not.

Something like tourettes surely? I've got ADHD and I don't punch people in the face.

Wacked.

Doesn’t Tourette’s include a tendency to do forbidden things, like using swear words that are deemed really bad and forbidden and then saying them. I’m wondering if something similar is going on, if the kid is thinking “must not hit jack in the face again” and then the tic is to do exactly that. If he goes quiet and red in the face he’s clearly embarrassed but doesn’t even himself know why he’s doing it.

i don’t get posters falling over themselves to amateur diagnose this kid with all sorts of conditions to excuse his awful behaviour. Going off what the op said he just sounds like a garden variety bully.

He is not violent - he can unintentionally do violent things, there is a significant difference...that being intent

Do you know this fucking kid? Because unless you do you sound ridiculous, affording him motivations and diagnosis that you cannot possibly know. And yes, he IS violent. Fact. But not around teachers or bigger kids. And if he genuinely can’t help it, he needs to be supervised or moved to an environment where he can’t hurt others.

Who gives a shit what’s causing this behaviour. This isn’t a virtue signalling pantomime, it’s real life where parents will not say, oh, he’s got whatever condition so it’s ok for him to hit you in the face.

You’ve just described what sounds exactly like Tourette’s. The school can’t tell you about a child’s diagnosis and perhaps the child is too embarrassed to discuss it. It’s definitely worth telling the school the exact details as they have a duty to safeguard your son as well as support the child with SEN (assuming that’s what we’re talking about). I feel for both of them, what a difficult situation. I wouldn’t be advising he ditches the friend though until the school have had a chance to try to help.

It reads like this is nd/tics. But that's for his parents/professionals to manage and support him.

Yes your son should step away.

He definitely sounds like he could have a tic disorders or Tourette's. Or be neurodivergent.

Perhaps speak to the school or the kids parents.

From the OP it seems that there is most likely that this boy has additional needs - and clearly needs support, I would hope that the school were involved with this and he has or is undergoing assessment.

That said as a parent of a child who is being hit and attacked by another child I would advise them to stay away from him so as to avoid being hurt as this situation could escalate and my concern would be for my son.

I agree it sounds like Tourettes but I don't agree that it's your son's responsibility to identify his triggers and "diagnose" this behaviour- thats way too much pressure to put on a child. Your child isnt an adult therapist, he's a kid and this child's condition is not his responsibility to investigate or to try to help manage- thats ridiculous.

The school needs to deal with this and put the support in place this kid needs which he clearly is not getting.

I think you should report it to the school and yes, he should keep some distance and space from him to minimise the chance of serious injury in the meantime. Personal safety has to come before everything else. I'm not sure why people are suggesting things continue as they are as if a woman was being hit by her partner (even if it was out of his control) everyone would be saying to leave or get space from him until he got some help. It's not different just because your son is a child. Someone is being physically hurt here and that needs to stop.

This from me too.

NO. Your son is being regularly hurt by this child.

It would make zero difference to me of this was deliberate or accidental. I would be recommending that DS distance himself and supporting other friendships.

No this is not ok.

They are 12, this boy is going to get stronger and your son could suffer serious and long term damage. You need to protect your kid and not normalise this.

OP, you seem keen to give your 12 yo too much credit. Kids will often put up with a lot from friends in order to fit in/not make waves. Of course it's hurting/bothering your son - enough that he's talking to you about it!!

You're not doing your son or this boy any favours by ignoring this behaviour and carrying on. Call the school. School can work with the boy's parents to help him stop/cope with his behaviour.