To allow a friendship that involves DS being regularly hit in the face?

[BrightHorizons24]

My DS is 12
He has a friend, aged 12, who he really likes, who hits him in the face - a lot.
But it is never in anger. Never accompanied by swearing or shouting or arguing. No insults. No accusations. No verbals whatsoever.
DS says they are standing together, maybe chatting, maybe eating their morning snack at break, or sitting at lunch together, there's no problem, no bad atmosphere or anything, and literally, suddenly, the friend's arm suddenly hits out and he hits DS in the face with the back of his hand. He quickly and suddenly raises his arm up and out and wacks the back of his hand in to DS's face. Hard enough to hurt DS every time it happens.
Sometimes the friend apologises straight away afterwards and says "Oops sorry I didn't mean to do that" then carries on as he was beforehand. He doesn't apologise in a mortified way, he apologises in a matter of fact way. Sometimes he doesn't apologise but says nothing and carries on normally as though absolutely nothing has happened.
Mostly, he hits DS, DS gets cross and walks away, and later in the day the friend passes DS in the school corridor and smiles at him, says "Hey dude!!" with a big bright smile and holds his hand out to DS's hand and gives his hand a "Bro" shake (this is DS's vocabulary, not mine!!). This is a few hours after hitting him in the face.
This friend initiates hanging out with DS at school, seeks him out socially outside of school, greets him enthusiastically when he sees him, hugs him, is always putting his arm round DS's shoulders, and displays many actions of being a good friend to DS. DS says he's great company, fun, enjoys hanging out with him, they get on really well.....but he regularly gets hit in the face by him.
DS says he always hits in exactly the same way - it is always 1 arm held out straight without any warning and it suddenly flies upwards or outwards with force and the back of hand hits in to DS's face, hard.
When DS says "WHY DID YOU JUST HIT ME???" because it's always completely out of the blue, the friend doesn't answer, goes quiet, puts his face/head down, and doesn't respond.
DS said that he walked up to him this week, there was something he needed to tell him, and he thought to himself "I'm gonna quickly say what I've got to say and then duck down". He did exactly that. And sure enough, the friend hit out hard with his arm and hand, DS quickly ducked, and missed getting hit, whilst the friend's arm/hand hit the air. DS walked off and there was no retaliation. The friend didn't come chasing after him to hit him or anything like that.
DS said this week "I'm used to being hit by him now, he's always done it, but it didn't used to be very often, but now it's getting much much worse and more frequent since we started secondary school."
They've been friends for 2 years.
DS also reports that when they're in a calm environment together, this friend is happy, fun, relaxed, chilled out and really lovely towards DS, generously shares stuff with him, tells DS he's a really great friend, etc. But DS says if they're in an environment that's over stimulating, like the noisy school canteen or any crowded busy noisy area at school, or outside of school, the friend gets quickly and visibly irritable, snappy, agitated, starts swearing.
This friend has quite bad tics. He suddenly pushes his head down, face down, his neck goes very rigid and his right arm bends across the front of his body and kind of locks, and his expression fixes in to an intense stare. It's hard to describe. DS says when he's doing it you can't communicate with him, he can't answer anyone who is talking to him at the time. DS used to tell me about this happening a lot, and then I saw it a few times for myself. It's definitely an involuntary thing.
Is it possible to hit someone involuntarily??
It's always 1 hard arm action/hit. Always just once. Never twice. It's never a punch, his hand is never in a punch position, his hand is always flat. And he never changes the rest of his body position or movement. He sits still, or stands still, and hits 1 arm out hard and fast, whilst his other arm stays still.
The other day, DS was standing in the school canteen at break eating his toast. The friend came up to him and stood next to him eating his snack. DS said it was noisy, busy, bustling in there like always. Without warning, the friend whacked DS in the face whilst he was eating, it really hurt him and he got angry and raised his voice at friend and said "Why did you just hit me?! You're embarrassing yourself! Everyone's looking at you now! Don't hit me!" DS said lots of kids saw what happened, lots of them were indeed looking at the friend, and an older boy said "Calm down man, what are you doing? Don't hit him (about DS), he's a nice kid." Another older boy said to the friend "Chill out dude! There's no need for that! Relax!". DS said friend went bright red in his face ("scarlet red" according to DS) and went quiet.
I really do not know how to parent this.
Obviously, I don't want anyone hitting my DS. But it never seems to be in an aggressive argumentative way.
DS is feeling really confused and I can see it's now starting to upset him. He keeps bringing it up at home and is really asking me for my advice about how to handle things when the friend hits him, and he is asking me if he should carry on being friends or if he should end the friendship. He's torn because he gets a lot out of the friendship - when he's not being hit!
I need to be really careful about what I model to my DS. It is never ever ok for someone to hit you. But DS values his friendship and they have a lot of really fun happy times together.
I can't discuss with the friend's parents, I don't know them at all.
I think what I'm asking mumsnet is, do I advise DS to stop being friends with this kid because it's never ok to be hit and also its not healthy to have a friend who is completely unpredictable in their behaviour, or is there a condition I've never heard of that causes children to do 1 single involuntary hard hitting out of the arm in to the face of another child who is standing or sitting next to them at the time, that is a condition that I should be sympathetic towards??
Has anyone got any experience of this?
**Just as an extra, DS has literally just a few mins ago told me, just after I've typed all this out, that last week this friend actually attacked him - barging him, hitting him, pushing him, and DS said "his face changed, it went weird " and said the friend was making "growling noises". DS said the friend was repeatedly hitting him with both hands so DS grabbed hold of both his wrists, held his arms down and said "STOP!" The friend carried on making strange noises but didn't fight or push back against DS holding his both his wrists down, DS held his wrists until he saw that the friend started to relax and calm down, then DS let go of him and walked away. The friend didn't do anything further, just stood there silently. DS has only just told me this!! Says it has never happened before.
What is going on?!

I agree with PPs that you need to contact the school. If he doesn't do it when DS is at a distance, maybe he just doesn't like people in 'his space'. Obviously it would be better if he verbalises this rather than hitting people!

on first reading this sounded a bit like something my DS would do. He has ADHD and I’ve had to speak to him about hitting friends in excitement. He now knows not to do it.

I think you need to get the school involved. They can help the other kid manage his own behaviour and protect your son. This is not something he should put up with- it’s not fair on either of them to let this continue

You need to tell the school and tell your ds to end this friendship, the lad obviously needs help but that's not your problem, your responsibility is to your son

It sounds like Tourette’s to me. Very difficult to navigate for you. But it does not sound like typical bullying. Can you seek a meeting with the school? They won’t disclose any information about the friend but they have a duty to safeguard your DS. I don’t think I’d be wanting to try to end the friendship at this stage. But equally your DS is not wrong if it wants to.

Several similar posts have popped up on MN, regarding children who may have a "condition " which makes them behave violently towards other children. What I am failing to understand is why it seems to come across as acceptable for these other children to be used as punchbags, because someone else has a "conditon" . It wouldn't be acceptable in any other scenario.
Could someone please enlighten me?

You need to talk to the school op and tell them what's been happening, aside from helping your poor ds it's a safeguarding issue.

School needs to support both your son and this boy with dealing with this. I'd be amazed if they weren't already aware of this boy's need for support, he likely has SEN and I hope he's on the school's SEN register. If they're not supporting his needs they should be, there are lots of reasonable adjustments school can put in place to help, like when the friend feeling stressed / overwhelmed in busy noisy environments. Our school has lots of different support strategies, my own dd has autism and anxiety and has several reasonable adjustments in place to help her.

To answer your question about ending the friendship, if it was me in this situation I'd have a meeting with the school. Then if they can safeguard and support ds then I'd see if the hitting and the latest aggressive type of behaviour can be stopped. If it can't and still happens then I'd insist on ending the friendship. I'd make sure the school supported ds with this by separating them etc, as if the friend reacts badly he may become even more aggressive. I'm ND, dd is, and we're pretty certain dh is too, I feel for the boy but whatever is causing the friend to do this to your son, I'd prioritise keeping him safe and end the friendship if it doesn't stop.

Is this for real? Whatever the reason, this is not on. The boy is assaulting your son. What do you think this is doing to his self esteem and sense of right and wrong?

You need to speak with the boy’s parents. If he has a condition that is causing him to hit your son all the time, it needs diagnosing anyway.

I think your DS needs to have a talk with his friend, and say "I'm not happy with the way this is going, and I know it's not your fault. Can we find a way to still be friends, but manage it a bit better?".

Ultimately, it may just be as simple as both of them working a bit harder not to set his friend up to fail - finding things they can do together which allow them to stay just out of range of each other when, or keeping something between them, when there's the potential for sensory overwhelm to trigger it. I do find it very interesting that it's only in busy environments - is it possible that the friend can work harder to try to suppress some tics while it's quiet?

It doesn't sound like your DS particularly wants to ditch his friend, and it definitely seems like there's some empathy there for what is a really shit situation for the friend. There has to be a way to work their way past it.

Also, for what it's worth, tics rarely remain static for life. It's entirely possible that this one will pass after a time (maybe a couple of years?).

@BrightHorizons24 Please get in touch with Tourette s Action for advice and support. There can be a way to help both your D S and his friend so they can stay friends and your D S can be protected from harm.

Plenty of people with Tourette s have terrible tics but find ways to manage them and keep their loved ones safe.

Most of the comments on here are very ignorant and uninformed. Please take advice on this from the experts instead. Thank you to you and your lovely DS for being there. It really means a lot.

https://www.tourettes-action.org.uk/

What kind of school is this that students are being hit in the face and nothing is happening?

To be clear, I’m not saying the child should be punished. There is no mention of teachers turning up when a student is hit. There is no mention of an aide for a student with a known propensity for hitting in noisy environments.

Ffs, why are people being so understanding about this violence? Speak to the school about it, the kid needs help. If it keeps going he may lose your DS as a friend - I know for sure that if it keeps going at the new level of aggression, then I wouldn’t be encouraging my kids to maintain that friendship, whereas if something can be done now then perhaps the friendship will be able to last.
My kids are/have ASD/ADHD/Tourette’s and I wouldn’t be expecting anybody to be putting up with or enabling that kind of behaviour, even in the name of kindness. The kid needs help. Take it seriously. Help him, his family, the school and his doctor to take it seriously. It might be alright now but by the time he is a big, strong 19yo it will not be so easy to forgive. Please, help him to face it now. our DS was troubled with tics and habit reversal therapy helped enormously.
Your son sounds like a lovely boy and well done to you too for being concerned :-)

So if this friend has a diagnosable condition that's not his fault, should DS still end his friendship?
Why are you making it your son's responsibility? Making him choose? He has told you he is being assaulted regularly, its a confusing situation for him and you aren't doing anything at all to help him with it, to tell school, to communicate, instead you are agonising about possible diagnoses or reasons wasting time and giving your child terrible lessons in self care and boundaries. Sounds like your own kid is educating you about it all and you are ignoring his needs and what he is telling you completely, that's dreadful. Help him, tell school! It doesn't matter right now what might be causing it, you are the adult and your son is getting hurt, you aren't doing anything to stop that or protect him. Stop analysing it and help your son, its shocking that you haven't.

This. It 100% sounds like Tourettes, there are some disgustingly ignorant posts on this thread.

OP - your son sounds lovely as does the other boy, of course he shouldn't be hit/hurt, really hope they can find a way to manage their friendship with some support.

This is still a symptom of tuerettes syndrome. Tics often aren't random. The swearing if often the same each time, tics can include undoing seatbelts, hitting someone who is driving (but only when they are driving) calling only fat people a 'fat cunt' for example. It's far more complex then a random noise or motion for some. It's more like a bad/ impulse that momentarily can't be controlled. Often the same impulse like hitting someone in the face.

If the boy hasn't got one he needs a diagnosis, I would be shocked if his parents don't know.

For your son, he seems to get a lot from the relationship.if he wants to continue, I would suggest that he proactively starts a conversation with his friend where they set out strategies where the hitting is prevented e.g. always staying out of arms reach. This needs to be something that the friend takes responsibility for improving. I'm shocked the school hasn't interviened in some way either to explain to the year about his condition or (if there's no diagnosis) to prevent what appears to be violent bullying.

Puberty is often a catalyst for turettes. It can get better or worse.

Please get in touch with Tourette s Action for advice and support. There can be a way to help both your D S and his friend so they can stay friends and your D S can be protected from harm

This advice is fucked. It would be really inappropriate for the op to try and diagnose this kid. She’s not in a position to help or support him. Her only obligation is to her own son and she should have advised him to stay away from this boy.

Poor boys (both of them).

I haven't read all the posts (only the OP's) so this may have been suggested...

Your son sounds like a nice boy. Given he keeps bringing this to you, do you think he's seeking your "permission" to back away from the friendship? This would be difficult for a nice kid, especially if he feels sorry for the other child/the other child doesn't have many friends. If this is the case then perhaps he's asking for your help to extricate himself?

Op you have described in detail several times how this boy has hit your son in the face and even attacked him. What do the teachers do when this happens in class?

If the answer is that it has never happened around a teacher you have your answer.

I can't be believe you're asking the question. Of course you should be suggesting your child distances themselves from the hitting child, especially given your additional comments.

Your job, as a parent, is to protect your child & be the best role model you can to them.
Physical assault is not acceptable in any circumstances therefore you need to give your child the support & tools to move away from occasions when it might occur, if that means ending a friendship because the "friend" is assaulting them then so be it.

I would tell the school about what is happening & the frequency of the hitting & the fact that it seems to be developing into something more.

I would also be concerned about hitting child & what is going on on their life.

@RedRosie has it. He wants to back out of the friendship but he can't square it with leaving the other child with no friends, because he's a nice, sensitive kid. I wonder if you'd help him by banning the friendship, so he can externalise the guilt.

While you do it make sure he has goes away with the understanding that sometimes problems are bigger than you can handle and in those circumstances it's OK to put yourself first in order to stay safe, even if it's not so good for the other person.

I do also think it is going to get much worse as the testerone levels rise in the boys. Your son may find he can no longer handle it so well when he has his hormonal changes and he could well get dragged into trouble at school for retaliation, even if is justified. So yes, best to end it now.

It's always the kid who throws the second punch who gets caught, but there's a part of me that would be advising DS to hit him back.

Otoh, there's a part of me that would take this straight to the head teacher and demand that this be dealt with, while also telling DS that the friendship is over, he owes this kid nothing, and he needs to establish a healthy distance between himself and his schoolmate.

This sounds like far too big a thing for a 12 year old to have to deal with on their own. His friend will soon become stronger and could end up hurting your DS quite badly, even though he doesn't mean it.

I feel very sorry for this boy and his parents but your DS should not feel bad about taking a big step back from this friendship.

So there's no problem if DS just drops the boy who hits him, and keeps his distance.

Yes, the lad needs help. No, it isn't the responsibility of your son to provide a social life for him.

It's not OK for either boy.

Its definately not OK for your son to be hit.

The boy who is doing the hitting needs interventions in place to stop the hitting. He doesn't need acceptance. If he continues this behaviour into adulthood he could end up with a criminal record

They cannot and should not be friends anymore.
Involuntary, ND, whatever reason, it’s unacceptable and your son does not and shouldn’t put up with it. Protect him and remove him from the situation if you can and get the school involved.