Barristers vs Solicitors!

[HBGKC]

Posting here for traffic - I told my son I'd pick the hive-brain of Mumsnet on his behalf.

He's in lower sixth currently, and thinking about possible career paths. He feels more drawn towards being a barrister (reasons: more interesting work, suits his skill-set, possibility to make a concrete difference), but is also thinking about degree apprenticeships to be a solicitor (reasons: getting paid a v decent wage whilst training, possibility to transition to barrister later on if he still thinks that's a better option, can make lots of contacts during his training that would be useful later as a barrister).

There's also the option to do a normal BA of his choice and then the law conversion course afterwards.

The degree apprenticeship would probably be the most difficult to get on to, as they're insanely competitive from what I've heard; though all law-related careers seem to like that!

I'd be very grateful for any tips/advice/words of wisdom/caution from any solicitors and barristers on here, particularly those who've qualified in the last 10-15 years. Thanks in advance

Forgot to say - he's doing A-levels in English, History & French, and is keen on the idea of spending a year in France as part of his degree - I think Oxford, Kings & UCL all offer this option. Not a deal-breaker though.

He should get all A's, hopefully a couple of A* if all goes well. He knows he needs to really jump on the debate club/modelUN/mooting/work-shadowing asap, as he's only just recently made up his mind that this is his career area of choice. He's v bright, v personable, and well-liked by his peers and his teachers - which is lucky really, as he's quite lazy and tends to do only as much work as is actually necessary to get him through the next hoop...

My advice is do something else. Law is a terrible industry full of extreme stress, toxic managers and psychopaths. I’d feel I’d failed in life if my DS went into law.

I would suggest that your DS tries to get some work experience in the field so he can understand better the differences between what solicitors and barristers actually do. The solicitor profession is hugely diverse.

As a solicitor myself (and one who is regularly involved in graduate recruitment) I would say that degree apprenticeships are still very new as a concept and may limit what he could go on to do. Many parts of the profession will be snobby about them.

I agree fully with a previous poster that he should try to obtain work experience, both in a law firm and shadowing a barrister, and also spend some time observing in a court room. The solicitor option opens up a range of practice areas, many non contentious, and also career options which include working in a law firm or in house for a company. Getting pupilage is extremely competitive and depending on what area he would work in at the bar it is often extremely demanding. How does he feel about work / life balance? Is he generally motivated by challenging work?

Solicitor here. I echo the comments about work experience. Lots of chambers offer mini-pupillages so certainly something to look into.

I'd be concerned about your son being "quite lazy", even if he gets good grades. Barristers (and top solicitors) are extremely hard-working, thorough and with excellent attention to detail. If you're a barrister, the buck stops with you and you can't just "wing-it".

I very much enjoy my career in law. I did leave the City, though, and moved to the regions, with a much better work life balance.

Why this need to determine whether he wants to be a barrister or solicitor before he's had so much as one law module? He might start an LLB and determine he actually hates law altogether. Strange, but it does happen.

I’m a solicitor and would say he’d be better off training as a barrister. Barristers appear to me to be less burdened by a heavy caseload and those stresses, as they take on a case for a hearing and then it’s done. Though I’m sure being self employed has its own stresses.
Barristers also seem to have the more intellectually fun and engaging role imo!

Also agree wholeheartedly with this

I had this dilemma 25 years ago and chose the solicitor route. Over the years, I've realised that this was definitely the best route for me but for reasons I hadn't appreciated at the time. I like being an employee rather than self employed; I like being part of a team rather than working more individually; I like knowing where my place of work is rather than having to go to a particular court, often at short notice as a junior.

Totally endorse this. I think law is the most toxic profession there is in terms of stress, pressure and poor work life balance. Hell would freeze over before I’d let my children choose law.

Solicitor here, but it sounds to me like he wants to be a barrister, but for whatever reason is thinking becoming a solicitor first then converting is an easier/better route in some way.

I'd say if he wants to be a barrister, go whole heartedly into that. Qualifying as a solicitor is gruelling enough, especially if it's not really where you want to end up.

Try to find him a mini pupillage, get him involved in Bar Mock Trial stuff, make sure he's following big cases, I'd recommend taking him to sit & watch the Old Bailey/ another court in session, attend free lectures etc. it's so competitive, the more experience & knowledge the better. It'll also test whether he really wants to do it!

I think best bet would be to do a law degree (or other good degree and convert) and some work experience and then make a decision. As long as he gets to a decent university and is on course for a 2:1 then most avenues should be open to him (although most of the most prestigious Barristers chambers do take most people from the 5/6 top unis).

I wonder what it is that makes him think of barristers having more interesting work. Personally, as a solicitor, I would not say that’s the case, but what I find interesting or dull may be quite different for him. Naturally there aspects of my work which are boring and some clients are exasperating, but overall I’m glad that something prompted me when I was about 11 to follow this course.
I cover more fields then many do these days, particularly those in the largest firms where I find there is such specialisation that the other side in transactions seem to have quite a narrow but deep understanding of their field. I cover commercial property, corporate law and not for profit clients (particularly charities). This means that my work is varied, but I do get pulled in a number of directions. If I had to drop down to one it would be the not for profit I would enjoy most, but we’re not of a size to have a department specialising in charities. Why do I find these interesting? I enjoy following through a transaction or acting for the same clients over many years as their business develops, but still have the challenge of tricky drafting or putting together complex plans. Your son on the other hand might prefer the adversarial aspects of being barrister, or for those who focus on particular areas, the opportunity to research and advise on specific points of law. Barristers generally have less continuity of continuity of the same clients, although that’s not hard and fast - I’m on the board of a charity where we’ve used the same KC for advice on a number of matters as we know him and he understands our general set up.

I think he needs to do some proper research, work experience, mini pupillage, vacation schemes. It is reductive to say barristers have more interesting work and more of an opportunity to make a concrete difference (whatever that means).

Like others I would be concerned by the lazy comment. Our solicitor apprentices work incredibly hard both in work and their studies. And I know you are just being a supportive parent, but doing this research on his behalf won’t discourage laziness either!

I went to lunch with a clerk a while back and he said that barristers are really insecure and need lots of support (and get paranoid they won't be instructed).

I'm a solicitor. I'm another that wouldn't actively encourage law but you don't need to make a choice about which profession until you're further into the learning side of things.

If I was starting now, I think I'd do a non-law undergrad.

I was also a bit curious about what he thinks barristers do that makes their work more interesting (since they're instructed by solicitors). Presumably he means advocacy?

Just to mention that a lot of solicitors and barristers also work in house for companies. In house work can have a better work life balance and be more varied in terms of the types of issues you cover. If he's getting work experience then I'd urge him to have a look at that too (albeit you tend to have to put your time in with a firm first to get qualified and get some experience).

Can't comment on the career path, but if he wants to be well regarded in his chosen career, he needs to ditch the laziness.

I paid a lot of money on the same case to a shit solicitor and an fantastic barrister. The difference between the two was day and night. I would never recommend my clueless, lazy solicitor to anyone. The barrister was worth every penny.

It's not a career for someone half arsed.

I dont know how it works these days. Will it be the LLB that he does? It's quite dry with a lot of reading, if so.

My DS is currently on the path to becoming a solicitor in Corporate Law.
He went to a London comp and has worked very very hard to get onto this path. He does not come from a background of any experience of this as a career, but I now know how useful it would have been for him to get relevant experience whilst he was at school.

Happy to give you more info if that would be useful.

it is not a career that I would have chosen, and I do have major concerns about pressure, stress, etc, but also believe they should follow their dreams.

He needs to research both roles properly. There are all sorts of sols and all sorts of barristers and I don’t really recognise the distinctions he’s making between the roles- why would a barrister make more of a difference than a solicitor? More interesting work is also not really split by profession but by area of work and of course is subjective. I also think the idea of qualifying as a solicitor to then become a barrister is misguided- people do move between the professions but it’s not particularly common or straightforward.

Would suggest he thinks about the area he’d like to specialise in- does he see himself doing immigration or crime or financial fraud or human rights or divorce or any one of an endless number of areas? This may affect the decisions he takes, the funding available and earnings prospects- plenty of both barrister and solicitors are poorly paid, other earn millions a year.

He can decide about barrister v solicitor further down the line.

IME being lazy at school doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be lazy at work. He will need to work hard whichever route he takes.

He sounds more like a barrister type to me - doing just enough work (and usually last minute?) is excellent preparation for the last minute briefs you get and have to master very quickly.

Some of the Law and language degrees are excellent- Newcastle, Liverpool (uni of) (and I think Leicester have too?) all have excellent courses.

Descriptions of it being toxic and full of psychopaths is not my experience at all - I think that must be a description of magic circle firms? I’ve never heard the Bar described in that way.

It’s a great career, but you do have to work hard. The idea that barristers don’t have continuity of their cases is also just not true. Particularly as your career develops, because you get brought in for advice before issue, then drafting pleadings, then maybe more advice, case management hearings, before finally doing the trial - with more involvement along the way the more complicated/ high value the work is. There’s buckets of continuity, without the annoyance of having to answer clients’ emails…

Thank you for all the interesting responses so far.

To answer a few questions:

I think the arguing-a-case-in-court aspect of barrister work (is that advocacy?) is what appeals to him most; he has the gift of the gab, it's 'active', there's a performative aspect to it which he reckons he'd enjoy.

He is naturally lazy, yes; however, he wants to earn a decent living, and isn't stupid enough to think he can do that without pulling his finger out and putting some effort in (to mix my aphorisms!)

Taking him to the Old Bailey is a great idea 👍

I'll pass on the strongly suggested work-experience/shadowing advice.

(He's done plenty of his own research and knows far more than me about the different routes/stages, btw! I'm just consulting my own trusted sources here, for my own interest as much as his.)

One thing I hadn't quite realised - so it's exactly the same 'law degree' for both options, and then you specialise after as either a solicitor or barrister?

I have suggested the law conversion course route to him, but he's concerned about how intense/intensive that year would be - he thinks it's 3 years' work crammed into one..? People manage it, obviously, but he's not keen.

He does not need to decide now which side of the profession to choose. Same career path till the vocational stage.

I am a barrister. Have been for 28. So I won’t comment on how it is for people training now. Getting pupillage was always tough though.

I will say that I still love my work. It’s endlessly fascinating, rewarding, stimulating and pretty well paid (I’m a family barrister so not earning the huge sums you read about, but I make a very decent living and have done since just qualified).

I like being self employed. Would not swap the freedom for security. It would not suit everybody though. Most barristers are self employed. We avoid the toxic office culture that I hear besets many big law firms.

I know what I need to earn each year and organise my working life around that. I take between 10 - 12 weeks off a year. Book them all a year or more in advance. There is no sick pay though, no holiday pay, no maternity pay (other than SMP), so you need to plan financially for planned events and take out (expensive) insurance for the unplanned events.

Concerned your DS is lazy. That would need to change. Though I take big blocks of holiday, I work about 50 - 60 hours a week when I’m working. Often late into the night to master the detail of my cases. Every barrister I know does similar.

I have friends who are solicitors. Generally they seem less happy with their working conditions than my colleagues at the Bar. But that is entirely anecdotal.

It is very intense - my DS is doing a Law Conversion! Not quite 3 years into 1 but the most important parts of the 3 years into 1, I think!

By all accounts the conversion year is deathly dull. Lots of cramming, but not three years in one, because you only do the core modules necessary for a qualifying law degree - there are many more modules you can choose on a law degree.