To think that Labour have just shot themselves in the foot?

[Redrosetat]

https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1768647056111861760?s=19&t=wqgtbWPG_X1xZDMhuF871A

‘Just now Labour MPs prevented debate on a new law to protect children and single sex spaces.

Instead they used parliamentary time to discuss ferret name choices.

@Keir_Starmer is terrified of debate on safeguarding & his MPs actively work to ignore the concerns of constituents’

Her old mentor is Gove. Why doesn't Badenoch just directly write this for the Telegraph? I mean really. Isn't this a dynamic future leader?

Turning up and answering questions would be a start. Rather than top level avoidance.

One good one for example on single sex spaces

What space.. How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

Eh? Turning up to what??

You have lost me.

Meanwhile the Tories have a majority and can't get a bill on the order. The minister for women and Equalities takes 12 hours to make a mealy mouthed statement about forgiving racism and can't even he arsed to turn up to a debate on a subject close to her heart.

GC Ultra women are basically screwed. Not voting, reform or SDP are the options.

What space.. How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

Well, there's a question, isn't it? How indeed, without breaching a person's right to privacy? Genital inspections? On the spot DNA analysis? Both extremely problematic. I haven't yet seen any answers to that little conundrum from anyone on any side in this debate.

A PMB debate, Dodds after her statement, Starmer anywhere

Take your pick I don’t care where it is I’d like Labour to stop relying on poor statements and answering direct questions such as the one below -

What space.. How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

I’d have quite liked Badenoch to turn up today. I’d also like her to answer your question because I can’t see how such a thing could be possible.

I think Dodds made that statement last year and sent Duffield on the rounds the next day rather than show up

The fact that no one can answer that question on here or from Labour shows the incredible stalling tactic used

How is protecting single sex spaces for biological women only, and woman=adult female a "poor statement"??

Because it doesn’t answer this

What space.. How legally would they keep men with a GRC out?

No it doesn’t. It’s an unanswerable question. I’d have thought you’d be delighted Duffield did the media calls, she’s a bit of a GC heroine, isn’t she?

Oh as if Rosie Duffield got "sent out". Rosie Duffield is a woman of conviction. She wouldn't have given statements if she didn't believe them.

It can’t be ‘unanswerable’ as women need to actually know what it means. Which spaces will have males in them?

That people think it is ‘unanswerable’ shows how terrible it is. It doesn’t stack up legally or practically.

Bah. That's why it's a PMB. No human rights sign off required

I'm going to ask you, as an ultra GC:

What space.. How would "they" keep men out?

It's a stupid question. If men want to access women's spaces they will. Self-ID breaks the social contract where men can be challenged, but self ID is not on the table now.

So I am unclear as to what your concern is?

"The law" can't deal with rapists. Making "a law to keep males with GRC out" means sweet fanny Adams.

You can ask me as someone who is pro sex based rights not ‘ultra’ nonsense

I'm pro-sex based rights and I support Labour's position

I have no issues with "Males with a GRC" being treated as women in some circumstances (public toilets, polite conversation)

You disagree. That's why you are ultra and I am lite.

Labour and the Tories represent GC lite. Reform/SDP represent GC Ultra. Your choice who you vote for. I'm not telling you what to think.

@EasternStandard so what is your solution? I haven't heard any solutions from the GC people on MN, and they're the experts.

Do you mean to be condescending with experts or literal? I’d say either way you’re missing that it’s just women who are informed and care, some do know a lot it is true, I’ve learned from reading on here.

Do you look at FWR you’ll find a fair bit there. Posters tend to be clear and reasoned

She asked a question, it wasn't condescending. I'd be interested in your opinions too.

No those are your terms.

You can apply them to you if you want. But not for me. ‘Ultra’ is a nonsense

And me.

Right back at you. I find it helpful to have language to differentiate different GC feminists. I'm of the JKR school of thought: woman = adult human female and men can't become women, but trans people need to be respected and included in society and I will stand with them to fight for that.

Ultras think there is no such thing as trans, birth sex only. That's fine, just a difference of opinion.

You don’t get to summarise my thoughts. Thankfully.

What are your thoughts then? Do you think there are any circumstances where males can be treated as women?

While we are on the matter, which political party most closely aligns to your views? Where is your vote going?

I'm open that I'm voting Labour so it would be nice if you'd show the same level of openness

I'd like to see public architecture adapt so that everyone's rights are protected. So if you're going to have a non-gendered toilet, it needs to be a fully self contained space with a basin and all the other things that every human being might need. Changing rooms need cubicles that are floor to ceiling. Ditto showers in leisure venues. It's all going to cost and it's going to take time.