To think that Labour have just shot themselves in the foot?

[Redrosetat]

https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1768647056111861760?s=19&t=wqgtbWPG_X1xZDMhuF871A

‘Just now Labour MPs prevented debate on a new law to protect children and single sex spaces.

Instead they used parliamentary time to discuss ferret name choices.

@Keir_Starmer is terrified of debate on safeguarding & his MPs actively work to ignore the concerns of constituents’

Where did she defend how great the Tories are and that they stand for women?

It is RIDICULOUS that one cannot criticise Labour and their pathetic approach to this topic without some quarter wit trotting along to say 'but the Tories are worse'.

We KNOW! We just expected better of the party that most of us have voted for for bloody years. It's all over this thread and it's really frustrating.

I think the social norm has been it's fine to take a child below puberty in the toilet of the opposite sex if you are the parent. Many establishments set an age like 8 years old.

Signs can be put up to indicate the presence of a male cleaner so a woman has a choice.

This is just whataboutery though.

What has happened is that the social contract has broken, men (whether trans identifying or not) have been emboldened to be in women's single sex spaces. Some of those men harm women when they do so, some of those are men who identify as trans women. Some women are excluded by the possibility of presence of a male at any time meaning that some women have been put on a urinary leash.

When things change in society we should ask who benefits? In the case of toilets no woman benefits from the inclusion of males in those spaces. The only set of people who benefit are male.

We need to go back to the pre- transactivist status quo where women were safeguarded because all males were expected to stay out of women's single sex spaces. This is better for women. Yes some males might be pissed off but that's not really an issue for women to solve unless you see women as merely support humans to male happiness.

If you do the same exercise for any other women's single sex space which has become mixed sex as a result of the trans activists, women's sport, single sex hospital wards, singles sex rape crisis for women, women's refuges, women's prisons etc, you will have the same result. Women gain not benefit from the inclusions of males in those spaces. The only people who benefit are males.

Women are socialised to 'be kind' which is why many privileged women who aren't directly put at risk by those things think this is not an issue. But it is for some women.

it is indisputable that women are being harmed. Many of them vulnerable as the result of being in prison, a refuge etc. So if you think this just doesn't matter ask yourself how many harmed women/ children is enough for you to care?

Going back to the pre-transactivist status quo is cost neutral, so why any political party continues to harp on about trans rights over women's safety is beyond me. This is an easy win for any political party, if they care enough about women's safety.

This thread is about Labour, they are very likely to win the next general election. As women voters we should be putting them to task on these issues now. Otherwise they will say they didn't know we cared.

Right well I'm off. I'm very bored of being piled on for engaging in a debate and these things are circular anyway and by posting I'm just keeping it going. 👋

I am not engaging with this bullshit whataboutery - the rights, safety and dignity of women and girls is a serious topic. You are clearly not a serious poster.

Where has anyone said they will vote Tory?

Great post.

Every single post about this shit.

every single time.

Why do you think talking about women’s rights and safeguarding generally for children too is shit?

That is a blatant untruth and you know it.

@lifeturnsonadime
. Great post

Or the culture wars or anti-trans or TERF bigotry - all the insults come from the same place which is propping up men's feeling over women's needs.

Any posters on here who are part of the labour party, you have constant free feedback don't you?

From mn.
Take it, say people are politically homeless.

So single sex spaces except when they aren't, thanks for the clarification.

Yes exactly, add it to males threats and violence.

All trying to do the same thing - stop women asking basic questions on safeguarding

Which adults are committed to stopping those questions and why?

So much for discussion when every other post is a self congratulatory comment. Any thoughts on my point about Duffield or is that too inconvenient to address?

If that's your take on harms from mixed sex spaces to women then I can't help you.

Yes sometimes there will be male cleaners (there will be a sign up) . Yes sometimes a child of the opposite sex will be in the space with his/ her parent.

The inclusion of those people should not mean every man get's free access to be where ever he wants!

Unless you're not big on safeguarding women from predatory men.

I am not from the Labour Party. But it is important to reflect that women overall vote Labour more commonly than men; that their intent to vote Labour is increasing, not decreasing.

In other words there are quite a lot of women who are content or neutral on this issue sufficient that they will support them.

This is important context when there is any claim about whether Labour's stance on transgenderism makes a difference to their vote. The evidence is not there that it does. It has affected many former female activists in Labour who have disagreed with their leadership but these two things are different in terms of impact for actually winning an election. And in that sense, a lot of this thread appears to miss that is the point of politics, as any good Tory will tell you.

It’s interesting when people claim politicians don’t respond on this issue when not long ago Labour fully endorsed self ID

They might do so covertly still but Starmer knows it’s a dud to pursue it and can cause political backlash

As I said - not a serious poster.

Some are secret Tory voters.
But many GC ideologues don’t just want to oppose Self ID.
They want to repeal the GRA and they think the Tories are their best chance of achieving anything like that. Single issue voters.

I've seen nothing claiming gay people are a threat. Can you share some of those incidents? Regardless though, the concerns of women here are safeguarding concerns and when you let males into women's spaces obviously the women are at risk. Its also anti equality.

I suspect that the GE is not going to go the way that many think that it is.

😂

Still no response to my question about Duffield?

The claims that no one cares don’t stack up

If Labour politicians thought that was the case they wouldn’t shift from promoting self ID

Of course they are still gender driven but use poor statements now. These prompt ‘unanswerable’ questions, because they too don’t stack up legally or practically