To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

[ballybean]

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

This. What would your boss do if you threw a chair at them, called them a fucking cunt then kicked the door off the hinges? Placating and hot chocolate?

Adult ?
The sack?
Criminal conviction?
Jail?

Schools need to find punishments that work - obviously corporal punishment is wrong but detentions don't work, extra homework? Will the parents enforce it? Every day people are posting on Mumsnet trying to undermine these measures eg my child can't stay after school, my child can't possibly do homework due to x or y, it's not fair they have been excluded from a trip ...

Basically the school has so few options and if segregated learning works and the child learns from it then no complaints from me (using it more than occasionally for the same child means it doesn't work for them).

Here in my town with parents permission the secondary school has a weekend detention once a month where they clean up the beach and other open areas, we all know they are the naughty ones, so there's a bit of name and shame, but also doing good for society, the kids don't seem to begrudge the punishment exactly but it's a deterrent and few have to do it again. Not sure it would work in bigger places though. Police are using the same tactic for anti social behaviour too, again parents support them, so it works

If they don’t want to be in that room they don’t misbehave - it’s really simple

What's wrong with punishing children who don't behave and who distract and disrupt? They're hardly being flogged FFS.

What do you propose as an alternative OP? Cuddles and sweets for the kids who make their teachers' and fellow pupils' lives a misery?

I suspect It's more about safety but agree humiliation should not feature in discipline.

You could email the head?

This made me choke on my hot chocolate !! 🤣🤣🤣

I would argue that students don’t necessarily need to respect authorities figures, but rather be respectful of them. Slight nuance I know, but definitely different.

Hopefully is the only thing on the list you did @Rosscameasdoody! ....🫣

No, it's not ok. It's never ok. It's not ok for parents or family to humiliate their kids as punishment & neither is it for schools.

Why not just put them in stocks in the playground with a ready supply of rotten tomatoes?

From what my kids tell me, the disruptive kids are quite variable. Some come from totally chaotic backgrounds with shocking home lives. Some have much more stable backgrounds. But the thing they all have in common is some sort of problem at home, ranging from violence/drugs to slightly detached parents.

ln an ideal worked the school would be full of counsellors and support workers, helping to undo some of the damage done to these kids at home, and getting them to reach a state of mind in which they can be effectively taught. But in reality the resources just aren’t there, and realistically they never will be

And there it is.

I have mixed feelings about these forms of punishment - I can see both sides of the argument.

But I’m curious - those who think it is completely wrong - what would you suggest instead?

From what my kids tell me, the disruptive kids are quite variable. Some come from totally chaotic backgrounds with shocking home lives. Some have much more stable backgrounds. But the thing they all have in common is some sort of problem at home, ranging from violence/drugs to slightly detached parents.

In an ideal worked the school would be full of counsellors and support workers, helping to undo some of the damage done to these kids at home, and getting them to reach a state of mind in which they can be effectively taught. But in reality the resources just aren’t there, and realistically they never will be.

So how can classrooms be made productive learning environments for all the kids, when some of them are determined to be disruptive for whatever reason?

It does seem from some of the teachers in schools that behaviour is downright appalling and dangerous in schools these days. Frankly if parents can’t be arsed the school have to do the best they can to manage behaviour whilst the kids are in school.

So yeah if your kid is in the hannibal box it’s on you as a parent to fix their behaviour. We have to really start expecting more from parents, schools are there to teach kids not raise them. It must be extraordinary difficult managing the level of shite behaviour in british schools these days. I’m not sure exactly what parents expect them to do as an alternative.

If a child is being disruptive they need to be removed from the class for the benefit of the education of the greater number.

I don't really know what the answer is. Would be irresponsible to send them home without an adult to collect them.

I think though it removes the child from the classroom for a period so other kids can be taught and the class managed. Reality is if you are a child who keeps getting internal exclusions it may be that teachers aren’t best positioned to help you. What they can do is minimise the negative impact on other kids.

Perhaps if the students weren't disrespectful in the first place the whole issue would be resolved.
Parents need to start working with schools rather than screening their everything is unfair. Kids know they can behave like brats and their parents will still say oh no you shouldn't be put in a classroom where (shock, horror) teachers and pupils can see you.
Children know the rules. So they choose to end up in that classroom or not.
If they can't deal with that then good luck dealing with the real world where there are consequences if you don't behave.

You beat me to it.

There are so few ways to discipline children nowadays - and one child can disrupt an entire class.

Better that they spend some time apart, in a safe place where they can be easily observed, and if they try to damage anything/ fight with another child/ harm themselves it will be immediately obvious and appropriate action can be taken.

It they find this humiliating, then they can behave themselves and stay in the class.

I assume that it is your child who is in the glass room for bad behaviour - and doesn't like it?

I think we’ve basically centred individuals over the group as a society to the extent now that it’s seen as worse if an individual is impacted negatively by the consequences of their own choices than if a whole group is negatively impacted by one persons choices. Perceived individual injustices trump group injustice.

Reminds me of the Shamima Begum thing, there are people who will sympathise with her as a child travelling to Syria and think she should be brought back because she was a kid and there are people who think that she will inflict damage to wider society so shouldn’t be brought back and thats the more important consideration than her individual circumstances.

I don't agree with it being a glass box but I'm interested what you suggest schools do for disruptive behaviour?
My DCs school had isolation for kids who had received a certain amount of final warnings in a week (they can receive upto 3 warnings per class then final is a detention) so many kicked off they stopped it for a while.

What happened was that the disruption became terrible and collective punishments came in... a couple of kids in class were disruptive - whole class had an experiment cancelled, a couple of kids in class were disruptive - whole class had interesting project cancelled. Not to mention having to go over the same thing 10 times until everyone listens meaning learning decreases.

Penalising every well behaved kid for the behaviour of a few is completely out of order and frustrating for them. So what do you suggest happens with the disruptive kids so that the ones who want to learn aren't penalised?

I spoke to the school myself and suggested they needed to support the teachers more because I was hearing of some terrible behaviour (not mine I might add) and it sounded a nightmare for them as well as frustrating for the well behaved kids.

Prisoners were LIVING in the panopticon - they had no virtually respite, day of night. This glass room is a short-term thing. AT worst, they go home at the end of the day and give their parents.a sob-story.

And hopefully the following day they behave better.

"The offender would be exposed to whatever treatment those who passed by could imagine."

So fuck off with your patronising tone.

When I read this I was reminded of Jane Eyre being made to stand in a corner by Mr Brocklehurst wearing a placard with the word liar on and visible to the whole school.

I can't believe this method of punishment is remotely effective. I am completely shocked.

Hopefully it'll teach them a lesson then.

Simple solution is they don’t mess about, end of.

You don't make them do better if there are no consequences for their bad behaviour, either.

Detentions etc aren't working. Maybe the "glass box" will.

Detention, suspension, extra homework, report card, withheld from activities??

Detention they don't turn up or are in every day.
Suspension. A load of red tape. You can't just suspend that easily.
Extra homework. How do you enforce this?
Report card. What are the consequences for a bad report?
Withheld from activities. What activities?