Former boss refusing reference - give him a piece of my mind?

[PralinesandCream]

I’m hoping for some input on a situation that’s currently playing out at work. FYI I normally just read posts and every now and again comment, this is my first post.

So long story short: I was on track for a promotion. An agreement about the last few steps I needed to take were put onto paper last March. I fulfilled the remaining tasks around autumn time and just needed to wait for the official posting of the vacancy for the promotion so I could apply formally.

For company reasons I moved departments at the end of last year. My flexibility was appreciated by the bosses higher up the food chain and as such the move wouldn’t have any effect on the track to promotion.

This week the vacancy came up for the promotion. My former boss (old departement) is now suddenly refusing to give me the reference I need to apply. He has form for doing things like this. He backs friends and people he likes and they get the nice tasks and promotions. I on the other hand have worked so hard and have jumped every hurdle put in front of me and now it seems I am not even afforded the chance to apply to be formally considered for the promotion.

I’m beyond furious and want to give him a piece of my mind. At the same time I also still want the reference and giving him a piece of my mind will effectively cut my nose to spite the face.

AIBU to want to call it as it is?

My meeting is later today, I really would appreciate some support and/or words of advise. Many thanks

Can you ask hr for a reference?

Or as its internal say I did ask my old boss for a reference but he's refused for some reason. HR should be able to confirm the dates or perhaps they could ask him to provide it.

What reason is he giving for not giving the reference?

Can you ask the bosses higher up the food chain?

Sadly not, the reference needs to come from my direct line manager.

Take a deep breath.
Do not antagonise him or jeopardise your chances for the promotion.
Go to HR if you can.

Keep your powder dry and make a mental note to get even some other time.
What an arsehole.

He hasn’t given a reason yet. We were supposed to meet last week Friday to talk about it. He cancelled the meeting and said that I need to talk to my new manager. He funnily enough also said that he was always happy to talk…We have a new meeting plannend this afternoon with me, my old manager and the new one. I’m curious and nervous about the reason he will give.

Then I'd ask HR for their advice. They may vbe able to have a word

Cross posted.

Can you request the reference from him in writing? And if he refuses, ask (again in writing) for the reasons for his refusal?

Thank you so much for your kind and wise words. I need to hear this.

Could you still make it an HR case if need be you've done the work to get the promotion and proved yourself..
So why should he be allowed to hold you back.

Thank you. I think you’re right that i need to get things on paper. We have a meeting today, I can chase that up with an email asking for his reasons on paper. I’m normally much more on the ball and would have thought to do this myself.

I'd do everything via email so there's a trail.

Email and ask (nicely) for the reference mention in the email the previous request. .

If there's no reply, email hr and say you have been refused a reference from your line manager for an internal post what should you do.

Play nicely to get what you want.

I was getting so caught up in trying to get a fair response from him, that I maybe haven’t given the HR side of things enough thought. I will make an appointment with them today. Thank you

If he raises something that was bever previously mentioned or had any performance plan or support put in place for you then refuse to accept the situation and let the managers know you will seek HR/union/Employment law advice since this is the first time it has been raised affording no opportunity to improve or to debunk a falsity. If I were you I’d be keen not to attend this meeting without some support for you. People keep saying hr are to protect a company but they are actually there to ensure the company policies are equitably enforced. So if your manager is breaching policy hr should support you to highlight that.

Really hope you get the deserved outcome.good luck.

I really wouldn’t get into a debate about this. It seems a very strange process that you cannot apply for an internal role without an internal reference. Just talk to HR about it.

Have you got your old appraisal/ 1:1s/ yearly reviews on paper, any records of valued work, management praise/appreciation those kinds of things you can take with you

I've asked for a reference but Bob has declined I'd like to enquire why...
Oh xyz I guess I'm confused as thus was never raised in our meetings, in fact ABC was said
Etc etc

Yes, i do. That’s one of the reasons I’m struggling with the situation so much. It’s unnerving me that he seems to be re-writing history now that I’ve moved departements. In the past hes done this a few times and its meant that the ‘right’ candidate has lost out to one of this favourites. As I am writing this, I’m realising how messed up that sounds.

I assume there is an HR department, just ask them what the procedure is when you aren't able to get a reference. You don't need to say why at this stage just that you've asked and it hasn't been forthcoming yet and you want to get your application in promptly

Is it an online application that needs something in a box? Can you write that you will send the reference as soon as you have it?

if you are meeting him summarise the outcome in an email and send it to him.

Always be excruciatingly polite while playing the long game.

if he says ‘oh it has to come from your new manager’ email HR and cc him in!! Like Dear HR Jane, I wonder if you could possibly help, Bob and I were just discussing the internal reference process and it is his understanding that he should not supply this. I was under the impression that it should come from him - can you possibly shed light?

cCcing Bob above, also attaching last years appraisal from him for clarity.

many thanks all! Sarah.

often I find acting like an slightly bemused but incredibly proper and thorough person around work wankers V effective with no lingering arguments.

Hold your nerve.
He sounds like a bully as well as being an arsehole.
He's probably a misogynist as well.

I wonder if you should email him first thing this morning along the lines of:

"I look forward to our meeting this afternoon to clarify why you have refused to provide a reference for my application for X post. Do let me know if I should bring anything to the meeting other than my previous appraisals."

And make sure you record the meeting on your phone.

I don't understand why you want your old manager to put the reference in, if it has to come from your direct line manager then he is correct that it should come from your new boss..
In case of a change throughout the year, the new manager would consult the previous one to take their feedback into consideration. So it could simply be this they want to discuss today.

He is all of the above. I knew that but am surprised but how much its affecting me.

Clever, i will bring my phone :)

I will definitely get things down on paper. I’m just debating whether to do it before or after. My new departement manager will also be there. He’s the opposite, fair guy and straight shooter.