Can I actually afford it?

[Thisisembarassing]

Another child. I have 2 already. I really want another but there’s been a lot of posts lately about this sort of thing and it’s got me second guessing my own financial security for another child whereas previously I thought it would be fine.

mortgage 4 bed- £1400 a month
council tax 160 a month
elec/ gas- £160 (very energy efficient house)
food £500 a month
car insurance £80 a month
neflix- can’t remember £16 a month?
internet and phones £60
childcare £600 (funding we’re lucky that the nursery is one of the cheapest in the area but one of the best, it’s attached to a school so they do the funding very fairly, so we actually benefit from the government funding quite heavily)

income £6k

lifestyle. We like 2 abroad hols a year (nothing really extravagant, but we deal hunt and get a free child place, we go for wherever we get a deal, normally spend 2.5k on the hols) and a UK city break (nothing fancy premier inn and do tourist stuff, Edinburgh flights are free through work, london etc) and a UK hols (haven, butlins etc)

we save £50 for each child a month and now we can get CB again will save that equally for the kids. There are progression opportunities at work. We both have good parental leaves 6 months FP and phased return to work at full pay and 30 days hols each.

we save for us too, probably around £700 a month.

we both get bonuses too, probably between 10/20% of salary depending on performance and pay rises above inflation.

space wise even though we’ve enough bedrooms we might struggle but could make it work.

we already have a 7 seater car.

its fine right, this works? Honestly before MN I’d have thought this is fine, but since joining not long ago, it’s actually got me worrying. I cant think about moving up yet job wise either, just took a promotion at work

Not for me.
We have one , and I’m not sure we will have a second. Time and Money are both factors.
We earn well, but things are getting ever more expensive and I imagine will just keep increasing the next 5,10,15 years. I don’t want to always be playing catch up.

Time is the biggest issue. Dh works full time, I work part time ( with some full time weeks). Even with 1 child who doesn’t no extra activities yet it’s still a lots of things to make time for. school events, appointments, illness. all times by 3.

If one child has parents evening appointment, and another a sports event with school other end of town, and other sick with chickpox your just stretched very thin with only two parents and 3 children. With 2 children at least you can tag team when needed.

We don’t buy things for the sake of it either. But basics like our mortgage rate increased ££, food prices have gone up, utility prices etc. our monthly basic costs are much higher than 5 years ago without us changing anything. Ie we use less electricity that we did 5 years ago, but monthly now costs €50 more.

I have three. They are 19,17 & 15 now. Three kids is expensive. All deals seem to be for families of 4. The extra bedroom in the villa, the extra plane seat, the extra birthday, school trip, driving big lessons, car, university costs... 3 is a lot. It's not just about what they cost when they are little.

Without sounding rude, how much do you earn as a household lovely? And would you say you’re comfy?

I have one teen and they cost us a lot of money. I couldn't have any more dc but the older I've got the more grateful I am having 1. Within the past 6 months 3 parents I have known have died, one suicide, 2 RTA's. One family had 2dc, one 3dc and the other 5dc. One family for sure are having to sell the home and downsize. Not sure about the others. You never know what's around the corner (not just death but divorce or having a child with medical or SEN meaning one parent has to stay at home). I know that both myself and dh could support our dc individually without having to move house or it having a significant day to day financial impact.

We have a household income of £110k and no mortgage.

That’s odd. Was it late August?

Last week 4 nights :)

found some cracking hols for around 3k in May half term.

same with Disney breaks, few deals out there for family of 5, just have to shift things a little

How terrible, but I don’t think not doing something because of the off chance someone might die is the way to live. It’s bloody horrible and of course true, but frankly you’d never do anything

We carefully with May, pools can be cold and depending where you go the weather can be hit or miss. If your close to Scotland it is often cheaper to fly from there for the last week of August.

Lots of people don’t like to go away for the last week.

Sorry I expected you to live in my head and understand precisely what I was referring to, I meant hols abroad in may (canaries, Spain, Turkey) etc

last week of aug, im perfectly happy going away then lol, anything for a bargain

Even some places abroad can have cold pools then. Often places like Canaries heat pools until the end of April so pools can feel chillier in May. It all depends on how hardy your children are.

These are all "nice to have" but not essential things though?

I have 2 teens, their combined extra curricular activities cost nothing like £500/month.
A 12k flute I would imagine is not something many kids would have...?

DD has had 1 school trip abroad, I think it cost about £700. (She's year 13)
DS has not yet been abroad either school (he's year 9)

dont people go to the canaries for winter sun? I think it will be fine; i think this line of scrutiny frankly is unnecessary

Winter is fine for heated pool but they only tend to be heated until the end of April. There will be a few exceptions.

People do go to canaries for winter sun yet. It can be lovely at 18-20 degrees to escape the dreary British winter. But it’s not pool and sea weather, they will be freezing. So Most families go later in summer as small children like beach and pools. In winter we have been, but to a 5 start hotel with indoor heated pool, and for hiking holiday. So it was no cheaper than summer tbh

Theres just so many expenses that children seem to need. We have had to pay privately for allergy clinic this month (€300 ish), Ds outgrown car seat (€200 ish). Last two months he need full replacement of most shoes as outgrown, for nursery he needs wellingtons and slippers kept there so x2 of those each time. He needs a new bike (even second hand cost) soon as outgrown, it will be a birthday gift, but even so, with three that would be birthday and Xmas gifts x3.

Last year we had sudden illness and then death of my grandmother, that involved last minute expensive ish flights back to uk and then accommodation for 10 days. Neither were expected so couldn’t plan for cheaper time. Ds just slept in our bed so we only needed standard hotel room, most have sofa bed for 1-2 also. And normal size hire car. If we had x3 teenagers We would have needed extra flight, larger hire car cost, larger suite or two hotel rooms. Easily €2000 extra.
I know this isn’t annually, but then the next thing comes up.

Our food probably costs us around €50 per person per week now ( about €150 total) In 10 years I imagine it will be €80+ due to inflation and child getting older. So with extra children, extra cost

The finances can work. You make it work. It's that simple and those things you need to cut back on happen naturally. There are less of the 'first spends' as you naturally retain the baby items etc. But the costs come later, as they grow older and hobbies cost, university costs etc.
The question isn't always about money though is it? It's about the overall impact on life. Time available for three kids emotional needs as opposed to two etc etc.

A major consideration needs to be the children’s quality of life. We earn more than you but do not feel able to afford three children. I have two siblings, my husband has three. We spent a lot of our childhoods being told we couldn’t afford things or that we had to compromise due to the needs of our siblings. That isn't the life we wanted for our own so we’ve only had one child.

Objectively you can afford it, plenty of people earning less do but it won’t be without some compromises. Your mortgage is not massive but I think you’ve been incredibly lucky with your childcare. £600 a month for two under school age is massively cheap. I am paying £16 a day 3-6 wrap around and £50 a day holiday camps so for three primary age kids you could be looking at more than you’re paying for nursery. Eg a week summer camp could easily set you back £750 for three. I also think holidays will end up being harder. My flights alone for August last year for 4 were £1800. I suspect you’ll hanker after something more than haven.

On activities, to an extent it becomes a choice but I don’t think you can assume you’ll limit to 2. Everyone I know does more than that. Something like brownies is cheap- for us it’s £50 a term- our most expensive thing is piano which is probably £1k a year in tuition per child.

Blinking heck ladies, the canaries was just an example and anyway, late May, Lanzarote is 27, there was also Turkey, Cyprus, Tunisia, Egypt, Bulgaria (all your standard jet2 and tui destinations really, im sure one will be suitable)

dh is on the fence too, he doesn’t think we can afford it (with one breath and then the other he does)think he’s not felt the benefit of our childcare bill reducing greatly yet.

probably needs one of us to make a career move first then revisit another. But then there is my age, I’d be 35 then

Flights are getting much more expensive. We just paid €600 for three basic Ryanair fights. Just return to England from Mainland Europe. In May. 2 suitcases.
Pre covid that flight would have been €200-250 max for the three of us. It’s the same non frills flight, same journey

Why do you care what MN thinks?

Yeah I have noticed that in general tbh, a flight pre covid to Paris was £100 return max and now it’s edging to £200 from our local airport (we’ve self driven for that reason when we’ve gone).

the hols I was looking at were package breaks, so all in together which for 5 people I think 3k 4*+ ain’t half bad but our half terms are after the main half term which I think lowers the price

The thing is, it’s a matter of judgement. You obviously can afford to keep three children/teenagers warm, fed, clothed etc. And more than that. But it’s about the lifestyle you want. For me a biggish family was important and I’d have been willing to sacrifice all the frills to have one. Personally I think it’s better for children not to be given everything. But it sounds like your dh might be less keen to compromise. Maybe he doesn’t want to take one less holiday a year etc

It sounds like you definitely want to have a third child and you can obviously afford to provide well for all the essentials. Anything else is going to come down to pure personal opinions and visions around family life. From your posts, you aren’t too fussed about the kids being really into sports or extracurricular activities, so that will probably be quite a cost saving. In general, I find that the kids who are really into those pursuits in an expensive way have parents who really encourage it. I have 4, and all 4 are EXTREMELY passionate about their sport, so they cost an absolute fortune. Far more than daycare. It’s worth it to see the benefits it brings them. However, had I known they would all be so passionate about sporting pursuits (they aren’t academic) I probably wouldn’t have had 4…. And it’s not even the crazy examples of 12k violins. One of mine would be doing the bare minimum to maintain the level of her sporting commitment. For her alone, it’s about 650 a month. She is lucky she is naturally talented as there are a lot of kids doing about 3x the volume, and travelling a lot more… but it sounds like you don’t have the interest in investing a lot in that stuff, which will probably mean you don’t end up in a similar position.

I like extra curricular activities don’t get me wrong, they’ll learn our native languages in language clubs (but they are largely free and community run) and 2 sports/ further activities. I just recall doing lots and lots as a kid and then being so tired. I swam, danced, went to religious classes, rainbows/ brownies, tennis, horseriding, tuition, 3 types of musical instrument. It was quite exhausting for a child. So I just started to refuse to go and refuse to practice until my parents let me quit. It continued to high school and there wasn’t enough hrs in the day. School 7:30-5, plus all this on top and homework.

they both swim. My eldest wants dance lessons, so she can have those, I feel like that is sufficient. Although I’d like them to do self defence so maybe I’ll get them into that too

You have a great income, a large amount of disposal and manage to save more per month than some people have to live on.

Of course you can.