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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For invoicing my landlord and land lady and filing a complaint ?

154 replies

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:11

Sorry for the length, I don't want to drip feed.

Two weeks ago, after returning from a 5 day trip we saw a mouse run into a gap in the kitchen base boards and found droppings. We contacted the estate agent who alerted the landlord and landlady (who live above us), got permission for pest control to remove the baseboards, called a next day pest control who came out within 24 hours. We also paid for pest control even though it's a landlords responsibility. Partially out of good will, but mainly because I just wanted the issue sorted.

Pest control confirmed we are not the cause of the mouse infestation. In his report he wrote the kitchen was clean and that the reason for the infestation was that there was heavy rain, and the mice sought refuge in our flat by entering via where some pipes are, as the hole is far too big for the pipes. He then said old cupboard doors meant that the mice accessed food sources by getting into the cupboards where the bottom of the doors don't align.

We obviously had to get rid of a lot of stuff in the kitchen. Our black bin is emptied every 3 weeks and was already half full. We filled it with the unsealed stuff from the cupboards or anything mice had gnawed through, and any sealed food items or general non food items were triple bagged with heavily scented bin powder (in case animals can smell sealed packaged food) and placed neatly next to said bins.

There were 5-6 bags next to the bin in total (sounds a lot, but I freaked and got rid of anything at mouse level). I contacted multiple rubbish collection companies, all but one gave over 7 days wait due to difficulties caused by our rural area flooding. I managed to find someone who could collect the rubbish within 4 days. I have the booking confirmation etc to prove all of this.

This Friday -2 weeks after the rubbish was removed, I got a letter from the estate agents saying the landlords have complained that 10-15 black bags of rubbish have been sat out for a prolonged period of time. We were told it is aggravating the mouse problem.

This is where I may have overreacted. I called the agents and explained the rubbish was collected two weeks ago, and that yes it was triple bagged outside for 4 days, but I can't control how busy businesses are.

The agent told me that they and the landlord and landlady feel we should have taken it to the tip sooner. So i pointed out that it wouldn't have gone any sooner because I booked on Tuesday and it was collected on Saturday morning, and because my husband takes the only car, an hour away to work in the week he would have also done it on Saturday. I also pointed out the landlords would have complained if the rubbish was kept in the kitchen for four days rather than keep the bags outside. The agent said they and the landlord also feel we could have taken a day off to take the rubbish to the tip.

I suggested that if the landlord and lady felt so strongly about the availability of rubbish collection services, or desperately wanted the rubbish taken on a weekday when the tip is open then they could have always taken the rubbish themselves. Or offered to reduce this month's rent to reflect the loss of earnings for my husband if he took an unpaid day off to take it.
(I don't actually expect them to do those things, I wanted to counter their unreasonable expectations.)

I then emailed the estate agent a copy of the rubbish collection booking, the pest control report, and the invoice from pest control.

I filed a counter complaint about the landlords malicious complaint of "10-15 open black bags of rubbish" as there were 6 triple bagged bags that were removed 2 weeks prior to the complaint being made, and requested reimbursement for pest control as the report indicates the mice got in due to structural issues of the property, making it their responsibility to pay for pest control and any follow ups according to our tenancy agreement.

My husband bumped into the landlady today on our shared drive and she made it clear that she is PISSED that I've made a counter complaint and requested a reimbursement for pest control. But I don't actually think I've done anything wrong. I did the best I could with the resources available and quite honestly I don't really feel like paying for pest control if they're going to make malicious, exaggerated complaints.

Just to add - I didn't feel the need to put up and shut up in case the landlord/lady files a section 21 no fault eviction out of spite. We're relocating in the next 6 weeks due to a job change so it's a none issue if I'm honest.

YABU - you should have taken the rubbish sooner and sucked up the cost of pest control

YANBU - your landlords should pay for pest control, and shouldn't have complained given the fact the rubbish was gone as soon as possible.

OP posts:
gamerchick · 10/03/2024 17:24

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:28

Or the landlord could have kept the walls in good repair and prevented the infestation in the first place. Just a thought. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Come on OP. Everyone knows a mouse can squeeze through a hole the size of a pen. You know this statement is unreasonable.

I like your assertiveness, I wouldn't want to mess with you Grin but you dont leave bags full of food outside, especially when you're getting rodents.whether they're exaggerated or not.

Seashor · 10/03/2024 17:25

I’m thinking good for you op. If there’s a hole into your property then it doesn’t matter where you leave the food and I certainly wouldn’t want it inside to encourage them in.
I honestly think that if the landlords don’t like it then the obvious answer if for them to fix it. You wouldn’t have had a problem if they had carried out maintenance.

Good for you for counter claiming.

DinnaeFashYersel · 10/03/2024 17:28

You should have taken the rubbish to the tip.

YABU

coastalhawk · 10/03/2024 17:28

Don't think you did anything wrong.

slippedonabanana · 10/03/2024 17:30

Every property has a million holes where mice can get in. It was a complete overreaction to call 24 hour pest control and fling all your food out in the garden to further attract mice to all the neighbouring properties. I hope when you own a property some day, you'll realise what a drama queen you've been.

coastalhawk · 10/03/2024 17:31

Itslegitimatesalvage · 10/03/2024 15:52

I don’t know how some people get through normal life events with reactions like this to something which barely raises a shrug from most people.

But you could say this about the landlord putting in the complaint? This person was ready to pay for everything and only decided to push back because landlord living above decided to make trumped up complaint through the estate agent?

You think they should have taken a precious day off work cos there's 6 bin bags in the road for a few days ? That is insane... Confused

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 17:39

FOJN · 10/03/2024 15:53

I think most people are missing the point, OP is not pissed off about the mice, paying for the pest control or even the complaint about the rubbish.

She is pissed off because the landlord lied about the quantity of rubbish, the length of time it remained outside and the complaint was received long after the rubbish had been removed.

She makes no mention of the LL's complaining about rubbish before so this appears to be a one off event rather than a pattern that they have become increasingly annoyed about. The rubbish situation was clearly not ideal but the OP did the best she could whilst waiting for the rubbish to be taken away.

What have the landlords accomplished by complaining in the way they have? The problem was solved by the time they submitted their exaggerated complaint.

I'd make sure you dot the i's and cross the t's when you leave, I suspect they will find reasons to recoup whatever they have to pay you for pest control by withholding a portion of your deposit.

Anyway the poll is with the OP.

Thank you for putting this far better than I did!

I wouldn't have reacted to an honest complaint. If they'd been honest to the agent I would have held my hands up and said fair enough, grumbled a bit and gone on with my week.

But their exaggerations just feel really nasty and mean spirited, and it's got my back up.

OP posts:
alexisccd · 10/03/2024 17:42

purplecorkheart · 10/03/2024 13:22

Tenants like you are causing Landlords leave the market, making less places for rent and causing prices to go up.

that really is not the reason...tax changes and interest rate rises mean they don't make as much
money as they used to Hmm

Wigtopia · 10/03/2024 17:52

A number of years ago we had a mouse problem due to structural issues. We handled it similar in some ways, but with a slight difference.

We emailed the landlord right away to let them know that we were going to get someone in to assess and write a report about what needs doing, and that there might be an invoice coming their way. The report stated (as it sounds like yours did) that the issues were structural which allowed the mice in, and laid out steps to be taken to mitigate (e.g areas to be blocked up by land Lord etc). They carried out the works and paid for the report.

I think the openness from the start with our landlord helped. I don’t think it was such a good idea that you waited until you were annoyed with them to send them the invoice.

but what is done is done, I would just suggest that if similar happens in future, emailing the land Lord right from the get go (so there is an email thread) would be the way to go.

I do hope they sort things for you.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 18:05

Needmoresleep · 10/03/2024 15:22

I am a landlord, a good landlord who gets on with all my tenants, but I am glad I am not renting to you.

  1. Mice happen. Is it a Victorian property? If so mice will come in when it is cold or wet. The best solution is to get a cat, or buy lots of mousetraps and know things will get better in spring.
  2. I am surprised the landlord is responsible. One tenant recently got bedbugs (no exotic holidays, clean person, just bad luck.) She was really upset. I offered to pay half, though actually, and I checked, I was under no obligation to. She recognised I was being generous.
  3. You need to be careful about rubbish containing food if there are vermin around.
  4. I can understand why the owners did not want to communicate directly with you. You sound pretty full on.

You are leaving anyway. I would chalk it up to experience.

Fair enough that you feel I'm full on and wouldn't want to rent to me because of that. I've lived in four rental properties now, and I've never had an issue with previous landlords or agents, because I've always been treated fairly.

In my contract it states landlords are responsible for the cost of removing pests and vermin if it's caused by a structural issue. There's a large hole in the wall and kitchen cupboard that's too big for the pipework coming through it, and it's been confirmed that's where they got in. Bedbugs aren't structural so I would have to pay for those as well.

FWIW if they'd have said to me or the agent "rubbish was left out for four days and we're not happy about it." I would have said fair enough and left it.

The only reason I've become "full on", and counter complained about their lying is because it's nasty and mean spirited to lie about the amount of rubbish and the length of time it's been there, a significant period of time after the rubbish that was there has been removed. Why should I be nice and pay for something I don't have to, or stay quiet about their lies?

OP posts:
FrogsWormsandCaterpillars · 10/03/2024 18:12

What an absolute overreaction to a mouse. I would have (and have in the past) got a few mouse traps and given it some time before contacting pest control

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 18:16

Wigtopia · 10/03/2024 17:52

A number of years ago we had a mouse problem due to structural issues. We handled it similar in some ways, but with a slight difference.

We emailed the landlord right away to let them know that we were going to get someone in to assess and write a report about what needs doing, and that there might be an invoice coming their way. The report stated (as it sounds like yours did) that the issues were structural which allowed the mice in, and laid out steps to be taken to mitigate (e.g areas to be blocked up by land Lord etc). They carried out the works and paid for the report.

I think the openness from the start with our landlord helped. I don’t think it was such a good idea that you waited until you were annoyed with them to send them the invoice.

but what is done is done, I would just suggest that if similar happens in future, emailing the land Lord right from the get go (so there is an email thread) would be the way to go.

I do hope they sort things for you.

I only sent the invoice because they lied to the agent about how long rubbish had been there and how much there was.

I was happy to cover the costs until they sent the massively overexaggerated complaint. If the complaint had been honest, I would have still been happy enough to cover costs to be honest as they've previously been decent and fair landlords.

OP posts:
caringcarer · 10/03/2024 18:18

If you've had mice it's crazy to leave bags of food waste about the house triple bagged or not because mice chew through things as you must realise. By making all this fuss you're unlikely to get a decent reference from this LL.

Allofaflutter · 10/03/2024 18:18

If the pest control says is structural and therefore the infestation is their responsibility then surely the consequences are also the landlord’s responsibility ? So why aren’t they moving the rubbish and get cleaners out? Replacing the damaged food?

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 18:18

FrogsWormsandCaterpillars · 10/03/2024 18:12

What an absolute overreaction to a mouse. I would have (and have in the past) got a few mouse traps and given it some time before contacting pest control

In hindsight I agree I overreacted to the sight of a mouse.

OP posts:
Allofaflutter · 10/03/2024 18:19

If it was a foreseeable consequence of not maintaining their property then aren’t the conquences all their responsibility?

Portakalkedi · 10/03/2024 18:23

Good that you're leaving soon, and yes I think the LLs should have removed the rubbish if you were unable to, should have paid for pest control as it was not your fault that vermin was able to get in, and given a rent reduction for the food and stuff you had to throw away. It's LLs like this that give others a bad name.

MumblesParty · 10/03/2024 18:33

It seems like a lot of work for a mouse. About 10 years ago I saw a mouse run across my living room, so I put a humane trap down and caught it, then I released it into a field a few miles away. I bought electric plug-in mouse deterrents and haven’t seen a mouse since .
If you live rurally you have to accept that in bad weather the mice will come in sometimes.

DSD9472 · 10/03/2024 18:59

OP- Did you actually see what the LL complained about 1st hand and what they actually said in writing?

I say this as a LL and have found somethings get misinterpreted like Chinese whispers. Agent contacted me about an urgent issue the tenant had, lets say hundreds of rats in the kitchen. I got pest control out the following day and nothing found! I was CC'd in error into the original tenant complaint email, in which they 'thought' they saw 'something' at the far end of the garden at dusk, which 'might' have been a rat!

I'm not saying your LL didn't lie about how long the bags were there, but do you have evidence of that they actually said?

I'm also amazed that your council would clear away 6 additional bin bags! Our council A) Wouldn't have removed them and B) would have fined you!

slippedonabanana · 10/03/2024 19:02

Odd how tenants get mice because of 'structural issues' and owners get them because....well, because it's winter.

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 10/03/2024 19:28

Mummame222 · 10/03/2024 13:14

Tenants are responsible for pest control and you left rubbish outside the property.

Im usually always on the tenants side as a renter myself but it sounds like you have s part to play here.

Not necessarily. The landlord is responsible for maintaining the building. If pests access due to holes and gaps in the building then it’s down to the landlord.

Mine had to reimburse us twice for mice (accessing via a gap behind the drainpipe), starlings (bird mesh missing in roofing) and a squirrel (got in through a hole in the brickwork).

Ebeneser · 10/03/2024 19:32

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:50

We're moving in 6 weeks.

At any rate the bags were triple bagged and everything in them was sealed packages. Anything that was unsealed was prioritised for the bin.

There was no way we could have taken them to the tip any sooner than rubbish collection could have 🤷🏽‍♀️

You could have just left them in the boot of the car.

ttcat37 · 10/03/2024 19:57

If you’re nearing the end of your tenancy it was brave of you to make such a fuss right before no fault evictions are going to be banned. It’s pretty much the last chance for landlords to easily evict people. No landlord wants this kind of hassle for something that sounds like it’s your fault.

NewMoonontuesday · 10/03/2024 20:03

Mice can squeeze under a tiny gap on a locked door. As I once discovered when I watched one squeeze under door, while I was having a relaxing bath.
We had mice every winter as a child, mouse traps hidden. My DP never threw the food out. Fields behind house and our house was warm.
But the smell of deceased mouse is 🤮🤢

Nextdoor55 · 10/03/2024 20:04

I'd be totally pissed off at you. This is not an infestation, it's just a sheltering fucking mouse, it's not a rat - just put a humane trap down if you're worried & everyone knows, don't leave rubbish outside or anywhere obvious.
If I was your landlady I'd serve notice, you sound demanding.
If it's your rubbish why should they pay for it to be moved it's your responsibility.