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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For invoicing my landlord and land lady and filing a complaint ?

154 replies

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:11

Sorry for the length, I don't want to drip feed.

Two weeks ago, after returning from a 5 day trip we saw a mouse run into a gap in the kitchen base boards and found droppings. We contacted the estate agent who alerted the landlord and landlady (who live above us), got permission for pest control to remove the baseboards, called a next day pest control who came out within 24 hours. We also paid for pest control even though it's a landlords responsibility. Partially out of good will, but mainly because I just wanted the issue sorted.

Pest control confirmed we are not the cause of the mouse infestation. In his report he wrote the kitchen was clean and that the reason for the infestation was that there was heavy rain, and the mice sought refuge in our flat by entering via where some pipes are, as the hole is far too big for the pipes. He then said old cupboard doors meant that the mice accessed food sources by getting into the cupboards where the bottom of the doors don't align.

We obviously had to get rid of a lot of stuff in the kitchen. Our black bin is emptied every 3 weeks and was already half full. We filled it with the unsealed stuff from the cupboards or anything mice had gnawed through, and any sealed food items or general non food items were triple bagged with heavily scented bin powder (in case animals can smell sealed packaged food) and placed neatly next to said bins.

There were 5-6 bags next to the bin in total (sounds a lot, but I freaked and got rid of anything at mouse level). I contacted multiple rubbish collection companies, all but one gave over 7 days wait due to difficulties caused by our rural area flooding. I managed to find someone who could collect the rubbish within 4 days. I have the booking confirmation etc to prove all of this.

This Friday -2 weeks after the rubbish was removed, I got a letter from the estate agents saying the landlords have complained that 10-15 black bags of rubbish have been sat out for a prolonged period of time. We were told it is aggravating the mouse problem.

This is where I may have overreacted. I called the agents and explained the rubbish was collected two weeks ago, and that yes it was triple bagged outside for 4 days, but I can't control how busy businesses are.

The agent told me that they and the landlord and landlady feel we should have taken it to the tip sooner. So i pointed out that it wouldn't have gone any sooner because I booked on Tuesday and it was collected on Saturday morning, and because my husband takes the only car, an hour away to work in the week he would have also done it on Saturday. I also pointed out the landlords would have complained if the rubbish was kept in the kitchen for four days rather than keep the bags outside. The agent said they and the landlord also feel we could have taken a day off to take the rubbish to the tip.

I suggested that if the landlord and lady felt so strongly about the availability of rubbish collection services, or desperately wanted the rubbish taken on a weekday when the tip is open then they could have always taken the rubbish themselves. Or offered to reduce this month's rent to reflect the loss of earnings for my husband if he took an unpaid day off to take it.
(I don't actually expect them to do those things, I wanted to counter their unreasonable expectations.)

I then emailed the estate agent a copy of the rubbish collection booking, the pest control report, and the invoice from pest control.

I filed a counter complaint about the landlords malicious complaint of "10-15 open black bags of rubbish" as there were 6 triple bagged bags that were removed 2 weeks prior to the complaint being made, and requested reimbursement for pest control as the report indicates the mice got in due to structural issues of the property, making it their responsibility to pay for pest control and any follow ups according to our tenancy agreement.

My husband bumped into the landlady today on our shared drive and she made it clear that she is PISSED that I've made a counter complaint and requested a reimbursement for pest control. But I don't actually think I've done anything wrong. I did the best I could with the resources available and quite honestly I don't really feel like paying for pest control if they're going to make malicious, exaggerated complaints.

Just to add - I didn't feel the need to put up and shut up in case the landlord/lady files a section 21 no fault eviction out of spite. We're relocating in the next 6 weeks due to a job change so it's a none issue if I'm honest.

YABU - you should have taken the rubbish sooner and sucked up the cost of pest control

YANBU - your landlords should pay for pest control, and shouldn't have complained given the fact the rubbish was gone as soon as possible.

OP posts:
Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:58

DSD9472 · 10/03/2024 13:44

Do you honestly think rats and mice are deterred by bin powder and a triple bag?
You must have stuffed kitchen cupboards, to have filled 6 bin bags with food- plus whatever fitted in your regular bin.
If you genuinely couldn't get to to the tip, DH couldn't go before work etc. As a last resort, I would have bagged the food into smaller carrier bag sizes and dropped them in bins when shopping, at DH's work, asked neighbours etc.

Firstly - I don't know why having stuffed kitchen cupboards is a bad thing 🤨.I bake a lot. I also stated the bags that were not in the bin contained sealed food packages. I buy my daughter's snacks in bulk so we're talking big packets or boxes filled with smaller packets. A big (3kg) pack of pasta etc. I did also say there was non food stuff as well. E.g. I threw away a fair few large plastic containers that had contained baking ingredients and cereal as I panicked.

I followed pest controls instructions and put the bags in an area on the other side of the building to where the mice were getting in. He said it was highly unlikely they would even be able to smell the bags due to the distance between where they're getting in and where the bags were placed.

OP posts:
whatapickle12 · 10/03/2024 13:58

What outcome are you expecting from your counter complaint?

StrawberrySquash · 10/03/2024 13:59

Honestly no one comes across well here. Why are you all filing complaints via the agent? Just speak to each other! And why are you throwing away sealed up stuff? That's added unnecessarily to the large amount of rubbish.

Reallybadidea · 10/03/2024 14:06

missmollygreen · 10/03/2024 13:36

Don't post on AIBU if you are not prepared to hear YABU

Are you saying that people who post on AIBU shouldn't respond to criticism?

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 14:15

Iwouldlikesomecake · 10/03/2024 13:33

Why would he need to take a day off? Even assuming you can’t drive and there is literally no other way for him to get to work (in which case he’s fucked if your car breaks) then you could have loaded the car up so he could have been at the tip for 10 and then he could have gone in late and either worked slightly different hours or a short day.

If he is genuinely self employed he should have the flexibility to do that.

I get that it’s annoying but shit happens that upsets the ‘daily routine’ and sometimes you just have to deal with it whether you are an owner or a renter. Being a renter doesn’t mean you’re living in a hotel. I also don’t really get why you threw out non-food items and sealed food items that hadn’t been chewed through as I can guarantee they probably had mice running over them in the warehouse they came from. But I get it may have made you feel better.

Mice can get in to literally minuscule gaps. If they have been driven away from their normal place because of flooding, unless your rural house is hermetically sealed you are likely to get mice somewhere along the line.

Husband would have to take at least a half day off as we live in a very rural part of the country.

The tip is 10 miles in the other direction to his work, along narrow country roads which while not an issue, do add a lot of time to the journey, especially when there's been flooding. It takes 40 minutes to get there. So you'd be looking at 40 minutes to the tip and 1 hour 40 minutes to work. It also doesn't open until 10 and my husband has to be in the office 10-4. They don't allow WFH for anything that isn't a family emergency.

And you're right. We're absolutely fucked if the car breaks down, or if he's unable to drive for whatever reason. Which is why we're moving to a city in 6 weeks. We made the decision after my diagnosis made it absolutely untenable to live in the countryside

OP posts:
BIossomtoes · 10/03/2024 14:16

I think you’re unreasonable for chucking sealed items. Why? The entire point of selling them sealed is to make them impervious to external contamination. Our old house has a mouse problem, particularly in the autumn. We set traps and accept that living close to a river and open fields means nature sometimes gets closer than we’d choose.

FOJN · 10/03/2024 14:17

The bags left outside is obviously not ideal but it's clear you did the best you could given your circumstances.

The landlords are pissed off because they know they will have to pay for the pest control. Exaggerating and complaining long after the event is ridiculous. Serves them right.

aodirjjd · 10/03/2024 14:19

I had rats, it didn’t even occur to me that I’d be paying! Landlord arranged all of it.

aodirjjd · 10/03/2024 14:20

And I also wouldn’t have taken a day of work to go to tip. I couldn’t afford it on top of all the food I had to bin!

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 14:26

whatapickle12 · 10/03/2024 13:58

What outcome are you expecting from your counter complaint?

I would like to be reimbursed for the pest control as it was confirmed to be a structural issue that isn't our fault.

But also, I'm just not very happy that they've told the estate agent earlier this week that the rubbish has been there for over two weeks, as it was removed two weeks ago, and the only thing outside now is two black bins and four empty, stacked recycling boxes. It feels very spiteful and malicious and I'm not sure why they'd do it.

In all honesty I'm actually unhappiest about the fact that they lodged a complaint with the estate agent. If they'd have talked to me during the four days the rubbish was outside, I'd have happily explained our situation and been more than happy to listen to any suggestions they had, because I also didn't want the rubbish there for four days but was genuinely stuck.

I couldn't add that to the complaint though because the agent would just say the landlord pays them to communicate. Even though the landlords have previously been happy to knock on the door and speak to us about property related things. For example they let us know about roof repairs last year rather than ask the agents to notify us 🤷🏽‍♀️

OP posts:
OdeToBarney · 10/03/2024 14:27

Reallybadidea · 10/03/2024 14:06

Are you saying that people who post on AIBU shouldn't respond to criticism?

That's certainly the impression I've gotten in the past. Any attempt to correct misunderstandings are met with more "YABUUUUUU" 🙄

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 14:27

BIossomtoes · 10/03/2024 14:16

I think you’re unreasonable for chucking sealed items. Why? The entire point of selling them sealed is to make them impervious to external contamination. Our old house has a mouse problem, particularly in the autumn. We set traps and accept that living close to a river and open fields means nature sometimes gets closer than we’d choose.

I agree I was unreasonable throwing sealed things out, but I absolutely panicked in all honesty. In hindsight, I absolutely own the fact it was ridiculous of me

OP posts:
Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 14:42

StrawberrySquash · 10/03/2024 13:59

Honestly no one comes across well here. Why are you all filing complaints via the agent? Just speak to each other! And why are you throwing away sealed up stuff? That's added unnecessarily to the large amount of rubbish.

I would normally be more than happy to talk to the landlords. I'm actually really upset they went to the estate agents and lodged a complaint. Because up until now we've had quite a decent relationship.

They always used to come and talk to us about anything they needed to, such as repairs. Rather than go through their agent and get them to send a letter. And conversations have always been friendly.

But now I don't really want to speak to them because they've made a massively exaggerated complaint via the agent. So I'd rather keep everything in writing because that trust has gone.

OP posts:
SomeCatFromJapan · 10/03/2024 14:45

OP good for you. People on MN hate it when tenants don't roll over like good little serfs though.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 14:48

Picklestop · 10/03/2024 13:51

Well it is better than leaving six bags of food stuff outside, that is disgusting! You sound like a nightmare tenant and I expect they are glad to see the back of you.

The food was all sealed. And it was triple bagged. It was dealt with as soon as possible. We've never had any other issues, nor have we ever left rubbish bags on the floor by the bin before.

Maybe they will be glad to see the back of us based on leaving rubbish out once because we had no other choice. But considering it took them god knows how long to rent this property out because of their own lifestyle choices (multiple loud pets, living above the tenant, etc), I suspect they'll be a lot less glad to see the back of us, than we will be to see the back of them.

OP posts:
BarbieDangerous · 10/03/2024 14:49

missmollygreen · 10/03/2024 13:36

Don't post on AIBU if you are not prepared to hear YABU

Telling someone they sound like a nightmare is not the same as telling someone they’re being U. In fact, it’s just downright rude

CremeEggThief · 10/03/2024 14:50

Are you always this intense about everything, OP?

You need to learn to chill out. Jesus!

user1567879654445 · 10/03/2024 14:56

Saucery · 10/03/2024 13:33

Where there’s mice there are usually rats too. Rats couldn’t give a fuck about fancy bin powder, so leaving bags outside wasn’t a good idea. But you’re leaving anyway, so 🤷‍♀️

Actually, this isn't strictly true although both like similar untidy/free plentiful food conditions, if you’ve got mice there are unlikely to be rats about as the rats will eat the baby mice. So thats one positive OP!

Zerotoleranceforgoats · 10/03/2024 15:01

Triple bagging, that well known rodent prevention technique.

What’s the point in paying for pest control if you leave easily accessible food waste outside?

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 15:01

Mummame222 · 10/03/2024 13:54

I’m not gonna go as far as saying you’re a nightmare tenant for leaving some rubbish outside, that’s a bit extreme!!

I understand it was difficult for you to get it to the dump but that’s definitely not on the LL. it was your responsibility.

I wouldn’t die on this hill, you’re leaving soon.

I know it's not on the landlord. I wouldn't expect them to deal with the rubbish for me. But equally, I got it to the dump in the quickest timeframe I could. Circumstances mean it was physically impossible to get there before Saturday anyway.

Once I've been reimbursed I'm happy to forget about it. But I've very much taken the stance that I'm not going to give them grace and pay for the pest control they're legally obligated to cover because they made the choice to make a massively overexaggerated complaint to the estate agent, rather than have a conversation

OP posts:
Dahlia444 · 10/03/2024 15:05

FOJN · 10/03/2024 14:17

The bags left outside is obviously not ideal but it's clear you did the best you could given your circumstances.

The landlords are pissed off because they know they will have to pay for the pest control. Exaggerating and complaining long after the event is ridiculous. Serves them right.

I agree with this

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 15:05

CremeEggThief · 10/03/2024 14:50

Are you always this intense about everything, OP?

You need to learn to chill out. Jesus!

No. I just don't like people turning around and making a grossly overexaggerated complaint against me after I've paid the pest control fees they should be paying.

OP posts:
Trethew · 10/03/2024 15:06

I think you have totally over-reacted

Mummame222 · 10/03/2024 15:07

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 15:01

I know it's not on the landlord. I wouldn't expect them to deal with the rubbish for me. But equally, I got it to the dump in the quickest timeframe I could. Circumstances mean it was physically impossible to get there before Saturday anyway.

Once I've been reimbursed I'm happy to forget about it. But I've very much taken the stance that I'm not going to give them grace and pay for the pest control they're legally obligated to cover because they made the choice to make a massively overexaggerated complaint to the estate agent, rather than have a conversation

That’s your choice but you’ll likely have to take them to court to do so. How much was it? Is it worth that?

It’s not common practice to get work done and then invoice your LL. That may not stand up in court?

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 15:11

Mummame222 · 10/03/2024 15:07

That’s your choice but you’ll likely have to take them to court to do so. How much was it? Is it worth that?

It’s not common practice to get work done and then invoice your LL. That may not stand up in court?

Our contract states that pest control is the landlords responsibility if it's structural.
It also states that if we have to get emergency work done that can't wait for the agent or landlord we can invoice them.

If I took it to court (I don't think I would, I'm not THAT bothered), then I think it would stand up as we have the evidence it's structural.

OP posts: