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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For invoicing my landlord and land lady and filing a complaint ?

154 replies

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 13:11

Sorry for the length, I don't want to drip feed.

Two weeks ago, after returning from a 5 day trip we saw a mouse run into a gap in the kitchen base boards and found droppings. We contacted the estate agent who alerted the landlord and landlady (who live above us), got permission for pest control to remove the baseboards, called a next day pest control who came out within 24 hours. We also paid for pest control even though it's a landlords responsibility. Partially out of good will, but mainly because I just wanted the issue sorted.

Pest control confirmed we are not the cause of the mouse infestation. In his report he wrote the kitchen was clean and that the reason for the infestation was that there was heavy rain, and the mice sought refuge in our flat by entering via where some pipes are, as the hole is far too big for the pipes. He then said old cupboard doors meant that the mice accessed food sources by getting into the cupboards where the bottom of the doors don't align.

We obviously had to get rid of a lot of stuff in the kitchen. Our black bin is emptied every 3 weeks and was already half full. We filled it with the unsealed stuff from the cupboards or anything mice had gnawed through, and any sealed food items or general non food items were triple bagged with heavily scented bin powder (in case animals can smell sealed packaged food) and placed neatly next to said bins.

There were 5-6 bags next to the bin in total (sounds a lot, but I freaked and got rid of anything at mouse level). I contacted multiple rubbish collection companies, all but one gave over 7 days wait due to difficulties caused by our rural area flooding. I managed to find someone who could collect the rubbish within 4 days. I have the booking confirmation etc to prove all of this.

This Friday -2 weeks after the rubbish was removed, I got a letter from the estate agents saying the landlords have complained that 10-15 black bags of rubbish have been sat out for a prolonged period of time. We were told it is aggravating the mouse problem.

This is where I may have overreacted. I called the agents and explained the rubbish was collected two weeks ago, and that yes it was triple bagged outside for 4 days, but I can't control how busy businesses are.

The agent told me that they and the landlord and landlady feel we should have taken it to the tip sooner. So i pointed out that it wouldn't have gone any sooner because I booked on Tuesday and it was collected on Saturday morning, and because my husband takes the only car, an hour away to work in the week he would have also done it on Saturday. I also pointed out the landlords would have complained if the rubbish was kept in the kitchen for four days rather than keep the bags outside. The agent said they and the landlord also feel we could have taken a day off to take the rubbish to the tip.

I suggested that if the landlord and lady felt so strongly about the availability of rubbish collection services, or desperately wanted the rubbish taken on a weekday when the tip is open then they could have always taken the rubbish themselves. Or offered to reduce this month's rent to reflect the loss of earnings for my husband if he took an unpaid day off to take it.
(I don't actually expect them to do those things, I wanted to counter their unreasonable expectations.)

I then emailed the estate agent a copy of the rubbish collection booking, the pest control report, and the invoice from pest control.

I filed a counter complaint about the landlords malicious complaint of "10-15 open black bags of rubbish" as there were 6 triple bagged bags that were removed 2 weeks prior to the complaint being made, and requested reimbursement for pest control as the report indicates the mice got in due to structural issues of the property, making it their responsibility to pay for pest control and any follow ups according to our tenancy agreement.

My husband bumped into the landlady today on our shared drive and she made it clear that she is PISSED that I've made a counter complaint and requested a reimbursement for pest control. But I don't actually think I've done anything wrong. I did the best I could with the resources available and quite honestly I don't really feel like paying for pest control if they're going to make malicious, exaggerated complaints.

Just to add - I didn't feel the need to put up and shut up in case the landlord/lady files a section 21 no fault eviction out of spite. We're relocating in the next 6 weeks due to a job change so it's a none issue if I'm honest.

YABU - you should have taken the rubbish sooner and sucked up the cost of pest control

YANBU - your landlords should pay for pest control, and shouldn't have complained given the fact the rubbish was gone as soon as possible.

OP posts:
Itslegitimatesalvage · 10/03/2024 16:03

I think the most reasonable response was to not throw away 6 bags of sealed food. Ridiculous.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 16:05

Itslegitimatesalvage · 10/03/2024 16:03

I think the most reasonable response was to not throw away 6 bags of sealed food. Ridiculous.

As said in previous comments , in hindsight I agree

OP posts:
AzureSheep · 10/03/2024 16:18

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 16:05

As said in previous comments , in hindsight I agree

Honestly OP, I totally get why you got rid of so much - we’re not all so calm and logical as half these PP seem to be when under stress. I would have the massive ick using anything I thought might have been got at by mice.

Sounds like your LL have up til now been pretty reasonable and amicable, so I suspect their exaggerated complaint is part of a ploy to not have to pay you back for the pest control. Eg - they’ll “drop” the complaint if you don’t bill them for pest control. And you don’t know what the letting agent will have been telling them either - they’ll want to make sure the LL is getting as much money as they can so that the agent can justify their fees.

Your contract states it’s the LL responsibility to pay for pest control in these particular circumstances. Fire off an email with a copy of your contract highlighting that clause, to the agent. Give them a timeframe you expect to paid by. Don’t write the email in anger and keep to the facts, use as much formal language as you can.

I don’t know how much the pest control cost, but if it’s not loads, it might not be worth pursuing if it’s stressing you out to do so (on principle it totally is but sometimes if we’ve got lots going on it’s not worth the hassle).

Your LL ABU here, they’ve lied in their complaint to the agent.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and I hope your move goes smoothly!

Clarinet1 · 10/03/2024 16:22

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, I think that, if you’re about to move out anyway, why waste a lot of energy on this dispute?

sleepyscientist · 10/03/2024 16:25

If you live rural get a cat only way to 100% control mice. Honestly local Facebook page man with a van or similar £20 to take XYZ to the tip sorted in a matter of hours. It sound like your at home so why couldn't DH take public transport to work leaving you with the car to sort the rubbish if you didn't want to pay. Either that or bag it in the kitchen until you could sort it.

Itslegitimatesalvage · 10/03/2024 16:28

AzureSheep · 10/03/2024 16:18

Honestly OP, I totally get why you got rid of so much - we’re not all so calm and logical as half these PP seem to be when under stress. I would have the massive ick using anything I thought might have been got at by mice.

Sounds like your LL have up til now been pretty reasonable and amicable, so I suspect their exaggerated complaint is part of a ploy to not have to pay you back for the pest control. Eg - they’ll “drop” the complaint if you don’t bill them for pest control. And you don’t know what the letting agent will have been telling them either - they’ll want to make sure the LL is getting as much money as they can so that the agent can justify their fees.

Your contract states it’s the LL responsibility to pay for pest control in these particular circumstances. Fire off an email with a copy of your contract highlighting that clause, to the agent. Give them a timeframe you expect to paid by. Don’t write the email in anger and keep to the facts, use as much formal language as you can.

I don’t know how much the pest control cost, but if it’s not loads, it might not be worth pursuing if it’s stressing you out to do so (on principle it totally is but sometimes if we’ve got lots going on it’s not worth the hassle).

Your LL ABU here, they’ve lied in their complaint to the agent.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and I hope your move goes smoothly!

You’re going to struggle to eat for the rest of your life then, because every item you buy in a shop or supermarket has had a mouse running over it.

Katemax82 · 10/03/2024 16:33

allI can say is, fuck the landlords

Brefugee · 10/03/2024 16:34

nobody comes out of his smelling of roses. You should have got the landlord to order and pay for pest control or involved them every step of the way.

I think you were definitely out of order to leave bin bags of rubbish lying around for 4 days - and your DH really should have taken it to the tip. Would probably have been half a day at most.

If the contract is that ll pays for pest control for structural issues, no issues around you requesting reimbursement from them.

LL leaving because of "difficult" tenants who only want to live mouse-free lives should leave the market. Because they're wankers who don't properly maintain their property.

I don't get why all the correspondence is via estate agent when you all live in the same building. They could have told you on the 2nd day of rubbish bags that it wasn't acceptable. You could always all talk like adults, and follow up by email to the agent cc to the other party.

telestrations · 10/03/2024 16:41

The pests were caused by rain not your landlord

You could have waited for them to sort it

I'm sure you didn't need to throw most of what you did away

You could have waited until collection was available to put them outside or taken it yourself

Sounds like you choose from the very first sight of a mouse to turn this into a conflict

Whattodo112222 · 10/03/2024 16:46

I think you might find your tenancy is not extended if you carry on.

Priminister · 10/03/2024 16:47

OP: AIBU?
MN: YABU.
OP: No I’m not!

I think you’ve overreacted and rather than try to foster a constructive relationship with your landlords (who are also your neighbours!), you’ve jumped straight on the offensive with your counter claims. The language you’re using is very accusatory and you clearly believe that you’re in the right here and were expecting the usual LL haters on here to agree with you.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 16:48

Whattodo112222 · 10/03/2024 16:46

I think you might find your tenancy is not extended if you carry on.

That's fine. Husband has a new job and we're relocating within the next 6 weeks.

OP posts:
Shesmyhero · 10/03/2024 17:00

If you had mice is there a chance someone else had mice too and also left bags?

Ireolu · 10/03/2024 17:01

I wouldn't have left the rubbish outside for days even triple bagged. Would have tried to figure out a way of getting to the dump earlier. I do however believe the landlords shd reimburse for pest control which is probably the crux of their irritation. Not wanting to pay.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 17:01

telestrations · 10/03/2024 16:41

The pests were caused by rain not your landlord

You could have waited for them to sort it

I'm sure you didn't need to throw most of what you did away

You could have waited until collection was available to put them outside or taken it yourself

Sounds like you choose from the very first sight of a mouse to turn this into a conflict

Actually by reporting it, gaining permission to remove the baseboards on the cupboard and paying for 24 hour pest control I was trying to avoid conflict.

The landlords created the conflict by lodging a complaint that is so exaggerated it's bordering on untruthful. If the complaint was honest and said they weren't happy bags had been left for four days I'd have grumbled but left it.
Because that's true, and regardless of whether I could get the bags to the tip, it's their right to complain about it.

But I'm not going to sit quietly when they've exaggerated to the estate agent told them the bags have been sat there for two weeks, when they had been gone for the best part of two weeks at the point the complaint was made

OP posts:
roarrfeckingroar · 10/03/2024 17:02

I'm with your landlord on this

Shesmyhero · 10/03/2024 17:02

You got rid of a lot of things - when you say you got rid of things ‘at mouse level’ - and it ended up filling a black bin plus 4-6 bin bags that’s really impressive

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 17:08

sleepyscientist · 10/03/2024 16:25

If you live rural get a cat only way to 100% control mice. Honestly local Facebook page man with a van or similar £20 to take XYZ to the tip sorted in a matter of hours. It sound like your at home so why couldn't DH take public transport to work leaving you with the car to sort the rubbish if you didn't want to pay. Either that or bag it in the kitchen until you could sort it.

I contacted around 10-15 rubbish collection and man with a van type services. All but one were busy for 7 days plus due to flooding and people asking for related waste removal.

We're rural enough that public transport doesn't go from our town to where DH works. It's an hour's drive or about four hours on public transport. That's neither here nor there though, as I can't drive at the moment due to a medical condition that has a high risk of seizures.

OP posts:
Dahlia444 · 10/03/2024 17:08

Priminister · 10/03/2024 16:47

OP: AIBU?
MN: YABU.
OP: No I’m not!

I think you’ve overreacted and rather than try to foster a constructive relationship with your landlords (who are also your neighbours!), you’ve jumped straight on the offensive with your counter claims. The language you’re using is very accusatory and you clearly believe that you’re in the right here and were expecting the usual LL haters on here to agree with you.

The poll is overwhelmingly in the OPs favour

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 17:10

Shesmyhero · 10/03/2024 17:02

You got rid of a lot of things - when you say you got rid of things ‘at mouse level’ - and it ended up filling a black bin plus 4-6 bin bags that’s really impressive

In fairness it filled half a black bin as it was already half full.

And I bake a lot and buy snacks, cereal and pasta in bulk which also didn't help. And yes in hindsight it was OTT, but I massively freaked out.

OP posts:
wonkylegs · 10/03/2024 17:14

bravelittlesmile · 10/03/2024 15:17

What a string of bizarre overreactions,

Yep this thread is just why molehills become mountains
We caught a mouse in the kitchen yesterday - it went like this

I caught the mouse in a trap
Then cleaned the floor,
checked there wasn't anything chewed (there wasn't they tend to go from under the floorboards to up under the baseboards but we store no food in cupboards they can get into that isn't sealed. I suspect their main source of food is kid biscuit crumbs dropped whilst stuffing faces)
Reset the trap
Got on with my life

I live in a Victorian house in the country, mice & voles are regular visitors, we try to fill obvious holes but frankly they can get through gaps the size of a pencil so it's a losing battle. They will be gone when it's warmer and back when it's colder. 🤷‍♀️

permanently · 10/03/2024 17:15

Our tenants contacted us early one morning concerned they had a rodent problem. A few hours later we pulled off the kick plate from under their sink and the amount of food underneath was unbelievable. They had been using an unlidded waste paper basket for a kitchen bin for many months which the rat could smell. Equally our bad for not insuring all and any tiny holes were filled on the ground floor. We cleaned out all their cupboards and got a pest controller in. All sorted and lessons learned. We wouldn't have expected them to sort and pay.

Todaywasbetter · 10/03/2024 17:19

Before you think about court and incurring mad expenses, check your lease because usually has the tenant must inform the landlord of any problems as soon as they occur and because you didn’t tell them there was a hole in the baseboard you could be wasting a whole lot of money.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/03/2024 17:20

I’m a landlord op. I’m with you on this. I can’t stand how some landlords think they’re superior to their tenants.

Mousegotinmyhouse · 10/03/2024 17:22

ObliviousCoalmine · 10/03/2024 15:17

Neither party have done brilliantly.

You've overreacted and thrown an unnecessary amount of things away, even you can see that in hindsight. Your landlords should have had a reasonable conversation when the bags were there if they had concerns - "hi, there are a lot of bin bags, this won't help the mice, what can we all do about it?".

None of this would have escalated if everyone just calmed down and behaved rationally.

FWIW, we're landlords, and if the pest problem was structural, we'd have paid for pest control and then fixed the issue that had been highlighted in the report, at a minimum.

I actually agree with you.

In all honesty, I wouldn't have reacted this strongly (or at all) if the complaint that came via the agent had been honest. At the end of the day, regardless of my circumstance, they would have been within their rights to express to the agents that bags had previously been left for four days and they were unhappy.

But the fact that landlord has lied in their complaint to the estate agent, saying the bags are still there, even though they were picked up two weeks ago. After we've made them aware we've found mice, asked for permission to sort out the pest issue and paid to sort the pest issue within 24 hours, just feels quite nasty and mean spirited.

OP posts:
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