Joiner charging £15 for invoice

[clothearedpotatohead]

Had someone come out a couple of weeks ago to do a small job.

Quoted £55. Came and did it, all good.

Asked after if he needs my email for the invoice. Crickets.

2 weeks later he’s come back and said it’s £55 cash or £70 with an invoice. “Let me know which works best for you”

I think it’s bullshit. He obviously doesn’t want to declare his income (again, bullshit – pay your taxes) and if he wanted to charge £15 for an invoice he should have said so in advance.

No i don't
But my post was aimed at the person who said paying in cash was illegal.

I declare all of my income as does tradesman DH. But I do think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Small cheap job that you're presumably happy with. Tradesman willing to come out for such small jobs are incredibly rare. Good luck with that.

That’s fucking awful (that that’s the first time any of the above has happened).

Hopefully more people will cotton on that there’s huge demand for reliable, professional tradespeople who can handle the organisational side as well as the practical. You’d clean up.

The issue is that you're not willing to pay professional wages. £70 to come out to you to quote the job, do the job, pay for materials and invoice you. Others aren't willing to pay either. This why most decent qualified tradesman no longer bother quoting the small jobs because they're a pain in the ass for peanuts. So you're left with the tax dodging unqualified handy men.

Nope, that’s not the issue.

Tax evasion is a crime. Businesses and traders dodging their VAT should be sent to prison for fraud.

For all those saying 'who cares?', where do you think the government gets its money from to pay for things like the NHS, pensions, the armed forces and education?

Tax dodgers like this aren't just defrauding HMRC, they are defrauding YOU.

Tbh if I knew in advance that a job was only going to cost £55 I’d just give cash on the day, or ask for bank details on the day. I def wouldn’t be asking for an invoice for such a small thing 😅

I meant the reason there is a huge demand like you said in your previous post. The reliable, professional tradespeople who can handle the organisational side as well as the practical are still there. They are just no longer willing to work for the likes of you.

Invoicing is really easy nowadays. There are many tools avail;able.

I guess you've seen the advert for Quikbooks Details go in, email out, invoice paid and your accounts are also done.

Of course, if you don't bother with keeping accounts and paying taxes, that could be a problem for you.

But it's not difficult

Trades people that are tax dodgers are showing you they are dishonest.

I assume you wouldn't get a receipt for work if there was a fault shortly after.

I know a couple that paid for a huge building job in cash - so much money they quite rightly got the third degree from the bank before withdrawing - just to get a discount. They had absolutely no paperwork to protect them if anything went wrong.

I agree it's really easy.

OP was saying there is a shortage of decent tradespeople. That's because people aren't willing to pay these days. They all say but tax dodger down the road can do it for £55. Its not worth the drama of a 6 page mumsnet thread.

Disagree completely.

I had some plastering work done recently. I went with the people who quoted £400 more than the other guy, because they seemed more professional.

There is very good money in trades. There are lots of reasons for the shortage (I happened to write a report for someone in this area recently so had cause to research it), poor pay is not what’s driving it.

I just assumed he’d send the payment details in an invoice, as that’s what every other tradesperson I’ve dealt with recently has done (about 5 in the last year). He knew I wasn’t going to be there in person on the day.

I agree - I have had some small jobs done and the invoice has arrived by Quikbooks.

Dead easy.

Even giving bank details for a transfer isn't difficult.

It's always been easy! Back in the day (and you can still buy them), "small" traders would simply by a challenge carbonated invoice pad from WH Smith or any other stationery shop. You just write the invoice by hand, give it to the customer, and you've a carbonated copy left in the pad for your own records. I've literally worked through hundreds of those books when preparing accounts and tax returns for all kinds of small businesses from window cleaners through to tv repairmen through to guest houses, etc. For those who didn't want to keep writing their own name and address on the top of each invoice, they'd have a rubber stamp made and stamp several pages in advance.

Nowadays, you can print off "empty" invoices and just write in the blanks, made by your own PC/smart phone and a cheap printer, so you can just write in the amount of the job on a small piece of paper, drop it through the letter box, and it has the traders bank details for you to send payment by BACS. It's what our window cleaner and milk man do so they're not having to keep going back to customer's homes to collect cash, especially for workers who aren't at home all day.

Anyone trying to justify a charge for an invoice is insane. It's part of being self employed! "Small" jobs like this just need something (anything) small and simple to confirm price, trader's details, and payment instructions. That doesn't have to be an all singing all dancing formal invoice, (although generating something formal in Quickbooks or Xero is literally a couple of minutes and click of a button), but using a photocopied proforma or carbonated book is absolutely fine!

lol thank you, yes even our window cleaner sends an invoice with bank transfer details

I had this once with a tradesman.
I pointed out that

1. I don't keep cash in the house
2. I need an invoice/ receipt
3. Said receipt would need his vat number if applicable.

I told him number 3 was most important as I worked for HMRC.

Had to laugh at this 😄😄

OP has stated that she is self-employed. Perhaps this job was related to her work and she needs an invoice for her own tax return.

It’s a legal requirement for VAT registered traders to give a VAT invoice/receipt if asked.

Update: joiner got back to me this morning. Asked him for bank details for transfer, I said don’t worry about invoice. He said this will also cost £15. Explained I am not in the same city as him right now (I am not). He said ok there will be a charge to come and collect cash from you. (Don’t think this is really a very fair suggestion considering he’s only come back to me 2 weeks later to say he wants cash immediately). I pointed out he’d only just communicated any of this – I did try to arrange payment 2 weeks ago. He then said right just send me the 55 via bank transfer, then followed this with no actually, I’m going to come and break into your home and remove the work. Then blocked me.

So besides being a thug he’s also pretty daft if he goes round telling people he dodges taxes and then threatening to break into their homes, all in writing.

Eventually spoke to the person who passed on his name who said please don’t think this is how I run my business or assume I am also dodgy and unprofessional like this. He kindly offered to pass on the cash if I sent him the money over. A friend sent it on my behalf as I don’t want any of these people having my details.

So whoever pointed out that dishonest, shady people are usually dodgy in other ways – the theory holds!

Wow. I’m not all that surprised as he was clearly dodgy.

@clothearedpotatohead

He then said right just send me the 55 via bank transfer, then followed this with no actually, I’m going to come and break into your home and remove the work. Then blocked me.

I think that warrant a report to the police via their non emergency number and sending them a photo/screenshot of his text. That's threatening behaviour and it needs to be reported in case the idiot does actually turn up at your house, either threatening you or indeed trying to break in.

He then said right just send me the 55 via bank transfer, then followed this with no actually, I’m going to come and break into your home and remove the work. Then blocked me.

He's a nutter and a thug.

A couple of the trades I've used have explained to me that once they have done something on a customer's house it belongs to the customer.

This is why they always give an estimate before hand using text message as their paper trail and request the customer pays in cash on the day. Most of their jobs are under £1K. (One of them was looking at how to take card payments but realised it would put their costs up.)

I have had a plumber who issued receipt on the day. He asked for cash also and like the rest estimated by text.

If there is a break in at your home you will, of course, report this to the police as well as the tax people.