Joiner charging £15 for invoice

[clothearedpotatohead]

Had someone come out a couple of weeks ago to do a small job.

Quoted £55. Came and did it, all good.

Asked after if he needs my email for the invoice. Crickets.

2 weeks later he’s come back and said it’s £55 cash or £70 with an invoice. “Let me know which works best for you”

I think it’s bullshit. He obviously doesn’t want to declare his income (again, bullshit – pay your taxes) and if he wanted to charge £15 for an invoice he should have said so in advance.

Thanks, exactly – I don’t support people not declaring their income tbh. And if he wanted to charge more for an invoice he should have agreed this in advance imo – not spring it on someone after the job

I’ve never known a place like MN for being so uptight about cash jobs. It’s not for you to police how someone deals with their finances.

Like it or not, cash is what makes the world go round

You had a small job done for £55 and refused to pay because you didn’t have an invoice? Yes he is obviously trying to avoid declaring income, if you have a problem with that then you pay the VAT. This bill should have been settled by now. Stop being difficult.

Thanks, I’m self-employed too, I don’t think anyone would have much truck with me charging a premium for the invoice.

And I charge far less than £55 / £75 per half an hour and manage just fine (to all those saying ‘poor tradespeople can’t catch a break’). There are plenty of honest self-employed people, who don’t dodge tax / child maintenance, and lots of those are tradespeople.

I haven’t refused to pay him – I asked if he needed an email to send the invoice (not thinking anything of it) and he disappeared – no reply. I think that’s on him!

He’s just reappeared this morning, 2 weeks later, saying if I want an invoice/receipt it’s £70.

Tell him you don't need an invoice and ask for his bank details, to do a BACs transfer.

By paying "cash", or rather by allowing this to be black market, you're potentially dodging VAT, his income tax, NI etc, enabling him to obtain benefits he isn't really entitled to, AND potentially robbing his children of child maintenance.

This is anti-social behaviour.

Don't kid yourself, PP, that "everyone does it"- decent people don't. PAYE people pay their tax, child maintenance, etc. They don't claim universal credit unless they're entitled to it. They pay child maintenance. What makes this joiner so special he's exempt, and can take undeclared income?

Thank you – if he had been upfront that would have been totally different

Just give him the £50 cash and walk away from it. You know to ask up front in future. The £50 is going straight back into the economy anyway as it's cash so the government will have already got its cut of anything he is saving.

I agree, it’s a clear sign that they’re dishonest and I don’t want anything to do with dishonest people as it’s never just limited, they’ll be dishonest about other things too!

Pay the £70 and then send his message and invoice onto HMRC https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud 🤷🏻‍♀️

Very odd OP. I don't know why people are having a go about you not paying when he was there, I can't remember the last time I paid a workman cash at the end of the job! They either have a card reader or send the invoice and I pay online.

I had a plumber do a quote. When I got the invoice he'd slapped extra on top for vat. I refused to pay the extra as the quote hadnt said excluding vat. He didn't argue so assume was just trying it on! It made me wonder how many paid it and how often he got away with that.

Thank you, I agree!

I’ve had to arrange for loads of different bits of work done recently, ranging from 1 hour jobs to large jobs in the 1000s. And everyone else has just quoted, done the work as arranged, popped over an invoice and I’ve paid immediately. No fuss.

I need a record and receipts for all the work done.

Why is it suddenly my problem that he doesn’t want to declare his income. If he’d just quoted £70 in the first place I could take it or leave it – he secured the job based on the price he offered.

I think Amazon not paying taxes is bullshit, I think Rishi Sunak and Jimmy Carr not paying taxes is bullshit, and I think the joiner not paying taxes is bullshit.

Serve him right for being so stupid as to put it in writing 😅

tbf I’m not even in the same city as this guy right now, so I couldn’t give him cash today even if I wanted to, but that is not really the issue – and obviously if we’d agreed cash I would ensure he had cash immediately on completion of the job!

It's decades since a tradesman offered me a cash price. They nearly all want a proper transfer because they have mortgages and bills to pay like everyone else and need to run a business. Even my odd job man asks for a bank transfer rather than cash.

However @clothearedpotatohead you are unreasonable not to pay straight away and the joiner is unreasonable to charge you more than quoted for raising an invoice. I'd just suck up the invoice and pay £70. You've made your point and £15 isn't worth the hassle.

If his work was good, the one thing that's guaranteed is that he won't be doing any more work for you or recommending any of his reliable tradesman mates.

I hope you offered him a cup of tea.

People who won't work more than 16 hours when work's available, because it impacts their UC (state benefit money) piss me off far more than tradesmen nickle and diming the revenue.

Is it £55 cash or £55 without invoice ?

Just do a bank transfer or write a cheque.

Without an invoice how does any guarantee work ?

This may be quite common an invoice means vat needs to be declared.

same difference I think? £55 cash, for an invoice (and I assume a receipt) it’s £70. I guess he won’t be interested in a bank transfer either

This isn't really about paying in literal cash. It's about whether the job is on the books and declared as income (and everything that entails), or not. You can be paid by BACS or PayPal or whatever and still not declare it as income (although it would be more risky to hide large amounts of income paid this way).

He could owe the bank money and not want it to disappear entirely into servicing a debt.

I'd have asked how he wanted to be paid before the job and bank details to pay online - but I always get quotes in writing.

You can be paid by BACS or PayPal or whatever and still not declare it as income

You can do whatever you like - HMRC (and now DWP) will know. Although whether they have the capacity, competence and political will to do anything is another matter.

A house a few doors down had there roof done recently. The roofer wanted cash which neighbour drew from their bank. Who asked what it was for and recorded the details of the roofer. Not sure if that's a new initiative, something to do with looking after more vulnerable customers (as is neighbour). But either way it makes for an interesting future.

@AbbeFausseMaigre ' This isn't really about paying in literal cash. It's about whether the job is on the books and declared as income'

I realise that. But if paid into a bank, there is a paper trail. If the CMS do an investigation and can see hundreds of BACs transfers, the man concerned can't claim he doesn't have an income.

That's the whole point. That's why they always ask for cash.

Neither of you is acting with distinction. He's probably not registered for VAT (all legal and fine) but wasn't going to put it through the books if you paid cash (sketchy, but common).

He quoted you a price and did the work, and you should have paid him there and then.

I run a small business (sole trader) my qualifications cost more, I charge substantially less per hour than the joiner, advertise my prices honestly, pay my taxes honestly (I quite like hospitals and public services) and make a very decent living.

Also no other tradesperson has asked me to pay cash in hand (from about 5 other jobs this year) so it’s not the norm.

There’s also a massive shortage of tradespeople and it’s really common for people to quote then just disappear, etc. because they feel like they can take or leave the work.

So I don’t think it’s a very strong argument to say cash in hand is essential to make ends meet

Also to add – I have not refused to pay or delayed paying. He’s literally just replied 2 weeks later with a new price.