to think the government are on a hiding to nothing with their drive to get people back to work?

[molokoco]

On the Today Programme in Radio 4 this morning they had a segment where they were talking about "worklessness" in the UK and the number of unfilled vacancies and how the government wanted to push two large groups back into the work force the 18-24 year olds who are not working due to mental health issues and the over 50's who have dropped out of work in the past four years for a variety of reasons and who perhaps have the funds not to have to to work anymore.

They had a man on in his early 60's who was made redundant from what sounded like a highly paid business / finance type career in the city 4 years ago, he had initially applied for 100's of jobs over the next few years and was rejected he seemed to suspect due to his age. He work as a postman for a spell before he finally mentally came round to the idea of retirement. Obviously this man had the funds but so do a lot of the people retiring in their 50's either have that or their health is so poor they can no longer work while they wait endlessly for hospital appointments and treatment.

When I try to look at the kind of jobs that have the most vacancies in the UK the information I am seeing is things like hospitality, construction, manufacturing, agriculture workers and so on. It doesn't seem likely to me that someone who was previously in a high flying career but now feels pushed out due to ageism or someone with health issues is likely to want to take a job in any of those areas which likely involve some mix of heavy work, anti-social hours, low pay and a degree of precarity and perhaps not much in the way of long term prospects.

The man on the radio had applied for 100's of jobs within his field of experience and he would have kept working if he had landed one but it seems like well paid, jobs with good career prospects are still over subscribed with lots of people applying for that kind of work so employers will have their pick and ageism in recruitment is a known issue.

They had a Doctor on to discuss the mental health crisis in the young but he wasn't very coherent, he did mention about improving nutrition, exercise and prescribing gardening to people with mental health issues and suggested that when people go on the sick with poor mental health and spend a few weeks at home watching daytime TV then they will feel worse. I am sure he had a point but gardening isn't a substitute to getting proper mental heath treatment, it is part of that sure but I think young people need more than that and that the things that seem to be behind the rise in depression, anxiety and hopelessness need to be addressed more widely. I also think that while younger people in good health may be more able to do the kind of work in hospitality or construction where the vacancies actually are the problems with these jobs still remain that they are often hard, heavy jobs, they can be low paid, antisocial hours and with fewer prospects in the long term.

It is sad to see people, especially young people drop out of the workforce right at the time their lives should be starting or for older people to feel pushed out due to their age or poor health but a few tax breaks isn't going to make an ex-executive or ex-teacher suddenly want to take a job on a building site or as a chambre maid and a few gardening sessions isn't going to make up for the utter lack of mental health care and magically cure young people of their anxiety or despair in a world where a home and a family seem so far out of reach.

I agree. So complex that there are no quick fixes. One thing that really struck me was that a lot of the vacancies are in roles considered ‘essential key workers’ during the pandemic. Also that lots of the vacancies are jobs that pay low but might create revenue and wealth for others.

If I was looking a quick fix mine would be to go back to an old proposal by the Labour Party the there should be a ratio for companies over a certain threshold, where the ratio between the top earners and lower earners can’t be too big. So the better the company does, the better all employees do, but you still have a financial incentive for the higher skilled roles.

At the moment those unskilled jobs decrease health and well-being due to the nature of them, and there is no ‘out’.

I am 50. I work part time because I worked very hard to get my current career and my part time salary is enough. We are comfortable. Few luxuries and basic car and a low cost holiday every now and then. But my time is worth more to me than money at this age. You only get one life. There is no way on earth that I would now work as a waiter or cleaner etc. I do t have the energy and I don’t need to.

We need to pay for our workforce well, treat them well and look after everyone, rather than treating them like work horses and keep them wearing their bodies out and heading for poor health and premature mortality. We need to actually value those roles and the people that do them.

@Cordeliacordyline

"If I was looking a quick fix mine would be to go back to an old proposal by the Labour Party the there should be a ratio for companies over a certain threshold, where the ratio between the top earners and lower earners can’t be too big. So the better the company does, the better all employees do, but you still have a financial incentive for the higher skilled roles."

This seems like a great idea, I think its been shown that the more unequal society becomes the less invested we all feel in it.

I am in my 40's and work part time at something I love and I probably would be considered economically under active but like you I value my quality of life more than earning more.

The 'economically inactive' situation is complex and there isn't a simple fix.

18-24 year olds are often still in full time education - and many do work part time jobs to to up student funding. If you want to address those who are NEETs, you need to be supportive rather than punitive, because this group will contain a disproportionately large number of people who need extra help.

Over 50s will often be dealing with health issues - sorting the NHS out would be a good start to addressing that group. Many over 50s will also be caring for older parents and will still have children at home.

Ultimately, if you want people to work you have to make it possible for them to work. That means offering emplyers tax breaks for providing flexibility and job sharing, and for taking on people with disabilities or health conditions. It means making sure there is high quality, affordable childcare. It means paying people properly so that they can afford to live and it means dealing with the cliff edges in the benefits/work relationship.

It means completely restructuring British society to be less neoliberal and more social democratic. Not going to happen any time soon.

"It means completely restructuring British society to be less neoliberal and more social democratic. Not going to happen any time soon."

@pointythings Nailed it! They were trying to say the UK should be like the US or Asia in the budget the other day, I would rather aim for Scandinavia.

Sick absence rates are really high, and those who can afford to retire early, or reduce their working hours are doing so.

This is covid - it's the huge elephant in the room, but long covid is really harming the economy.

Successive governments have prioritised formal, exam-based education (A levels, degrees) over trades and technical education. This has led us to a situation where many thousands of young people have serious debt and qualifications we don't especially need.

About 20 years ago, the then Labour government commissioned a report into how to make technical qualifications equal in status to A levels. And then they ignored it. The next Tory government decided kids needed more 'formal' subjects on the curriculum. And so it goes on.

We desperately need more young people in a range of highly skilled workplaces. But we're still making them do the same old shit to age 16 and then thereafter. No wonder they're all disillusioned.

I am in my 40's and work part time at something I love and I probably would be considered economically under active but like you I value my quality of life more than earning more.

So you’re part of the problem. Presumably those people who have retired in their early 50s also “value their quality of life more than earning more”.

They have to accept reality though

If you can afford not to work, or to work less, most people will take that option. Some of the over 50s will be in that bracket. Not claiming benefits, have enough to live on for whatever reason.

I really hope the government don’t waste money “researching” that one. It’s not rocket science.

If you crash the economy enough so peoples pensions are worthless, they'll have to go back to work.

Job done.

That certainly seems to be the current strategy.

I know of several people in their late 50s made redundant who were unable to find new jobs due to lack of formal qualifications... such as GCSE maths. Worked for years in office based roles for the same company. (In my mothers case... since she was 17... worked her way through civil service... but no degree)

I know a lot of over 55s who were made redundant in favour of cheaper, younger staff.

Quite a few have enough in the bank to get them to state pension age. I don't blame any of them for not wanting to bother re-entering an ageist workplace. Not to mention if you are also a woman over 55, so you get a double dose of ageism and sexism.

I am one of those. I would quite like a small job, but the ageism plus my other responsibilities makes it a nope.

Agree. DH and I are of the Tony Blair/1997 school-age era. We have good degrees but, other than looking good on a CV to certain employers, we didn't really need them. I've ended up in financial services with a languages degree and DH is a journalist with a maths degree!

I'm tempted to tell DS5 to train as an electrician.

Re: the OP, I work with 2 over-50s and neither of them are in a position where they'd take on anything manual to pay the bills. They'd just retire if the business went under. A lot of those who ended up very senior in their 40s and 50s have been investing/stashing pensions. My own mum and dad retired in their 50s.

And there's always equity release - whatever you may think of it, people are doing it in droves.

the 18-24 year olds who are not working due to mental health issues and the over 50's who have dropped out of work in the past four years for a variety of reasons and who perhaps have the funds not to have to to work anymore.

How many of the 18-24 yr olds are students?

The silver exodus aren’t really rich early retirees
“the largest rise in inactivity post-pandemic is coming from workers in the lower-middle income bracket (earning roughly £18,000 to £25,000 per year in their most recent job”

“For example, there has been a larger rise in inactivity among people who rent, rather than own, their own homes, and among those in lower paid industries and occupations. There has also been a smaller rise in inactivity among highly educated workers.”

Alot of them have left the workforce due to health.

Yip and that's where we're heading, not a great outlook for youngsters coming up

This has led us to a situation where many thousands of young people have serious debt and qualifications we don't especially need.

Problem is employers often want degrees though even just for the sorting process.

The silver exodus aren’t really rich early retirees
“the largest rise in inactivity post-pandemic is coming from workers in the lower-middle income bracket (earning roughly £18,000 to £25,000 per year in their most recent job”

They aren't all from single income households, though. I know a family where the women left a job in retail to help look after/spend time with grandkids because the man was still earning.

I'm over 50 and have just left a shift job because of the toll it was taking on my health. I'm looking for casual work as I'm lucky enough to have paid the mortgage off and kids have left home. I'm happy to do interesting NMW jobs because I want to work. I've been lucky to get every job I've gone for but I've been surprised by employers saying they just can't get reliable competent staff. Two of the jobs I've done have asked me to increase my hours/become permanent/take a supervisor job. These are interesting NMW jobs not dead end jobs with a chance of career progression but companies can't get good quality candidates.

I agree

They need to distinguish between young people struggling with low mood due to existential crisis and those with diagnosed mental illnesses. The former may benefit by 'getting back out there' but the latter need proper treatment and support which often isn't available . Using them to fill undesirable job vacancies is not right.

I work in welfare rights and my clients all have mental health issues. I am 100% positive that the vast majority of them would never be able to sustain full-time employment and the minority that could work would only be able to sustain p/t employment in an incredibly supportive and understanding environment.

A friend's son might have been able to work, if he'd got any meaningful input from CAMHS in the six+ years that he was waiting for assessment. He has PTSD, anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, misophonia and is autistic. His social phobia is so extreme that he has panic attacks if someone so much as knocks on the front door, friend has come from walking the dog to find him in a complete, sobbing, quaking meltdown. He's been out of education since he was 11 (now nearly 18).

What job could he possibly do? And does anyone really think he's not entitled to PIP and the additional amount of UC that people get if they're found unable to do any work-related activity?

100%
You're made to feel like a failure at school if you aren't going on to university, this attitude needs to change! I'm from farming background and now work in construction, it's near impossible to recruit staff and with the result they are having to be paid more and offered better conditions to get anyone. But employers aren't being supported to do this and the small profit they have doesn't make it viable which is resulting in many small business' going under and many family farm's giving up. The big are getting bigger and the small are being pushed out.

If companies want "good quality candidates" they need to pay "good quality" wages.

Funnily enough I have taken a casual job as a chambermaid, it suits me down to the ground. Its a zero hours contract and I can turn shifts down (if I do they get in agency staff who are more expensive) I get first dibs on an extra shifts going but Im not working part time and not tied to a job - which leaves me free to look after grandchildren, travel etc but I also have a bit of money when and if I want.

They get a member of staff to call on who knows the job, is same cost as contracted staff, and saves them employing an extra member of staff they might not need even part time.

I want to do this and enjoy the change of job from working in administration type role. It is easy on the mind and satisfying when I close the door to a room and it's all neat and tidy for a guest to enter or return.

@SecondHandFurniture but renters have seen a larger increase & so has the number claiming unemployment benefit.