Subsidised childcare va care home fees

[MrBanana]

Discussing the introduction of 15 free hours for two year olds with friends (which I think is flawed but that’s not the point of this post). Friend 1 said childcare has to be made free. I disagree, there’s no political appetite for that. People of retirement age feel quite strongly that parents should be responsible for their own children. They’re the ones who vote in the largest numbers.

I don’t disagree, but I don’t agree that we somehow have it easier. We are told we have to be responsible for our own children. But we can’t now survive on one salary alone. Childcare is now more expensive and inadequately funded. Everyone I know with a two year old has seen their nursery bill increase in anticipation of the “free hours”
to compensate for it.

But then it struck me that these people are the same people who have “worked all their life” and don’t feel they should have to pay their care home fees and if they do, complain about it being unfair. Healthcare is still free to them, whereas we are finding it increasingly difficult to get a dentist for example.

It just struck me how hypocritical the whole argument is - we are supposed to be responsible for our children, by virtue of them being our children, whilst simultaneously working. But the current cohort of retirement age are complaining about, and want to avoid, being financially responsible for themselves! Most won’t have been paying taxes whilst receiving the benefits we’re now paying for childcare/dentistry etc.

Im not sure that’s the best structured argument but I hope I've made my point well enough to be understood.

You still won’t have contributed enough to cover how much you take out in your lifetime. Especially since general taxation rates were lower back then too

Having to sell your home if you go into a care home is fine. Healthcare should still be free.

Unless that posters father was an extremely high earner it won’t make a difference unfortunately.

The vast majority of workers from back then will never pay in more than they took out by the time they die.

Many "worked all their life cohort" are women that stopped working in their late 20's when they had their first baby and never went back. That's great they could be a sahm and live on one income but don't say you worked all your life when it was 10 years!

This. My parents are retired and don’t share this view.

They weren’t. I’ve already told you the basic rate was 33% when I started work.

https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Basic-income-tax-uk-48-12.jpg

Those women are all dead now. None of my generation stopped work and never returned. Some of my contemporaries are still working, having celebrated their 70th birthdays.

Don't forget that for lots of women there was no choice, there are plenty of examples of jobs which required you to resign upon marriage or having a child. I have my Mum's dismissal letter from her job at a merchant bank (because she'd had to take too much time off looking after us when we had a run of childhood illnesses), where it reminds her of their reluctance to employ her as a mother of very young children.

The cost of living today needs two salaries because it became normal for women to keep working, that's capitalism. Would you rather we went back to women being expected to stay at home?

I worked all my adult life until retirement lol. I don’t know where you lived.🙄

They're not dead, my mum is one, she's 73. She has a house with mortgage paid off, £1k a month in Pension, PC and PIP. And she's put the house in my brother's name ( ) not for deprivation reasons but because she thinks sons should inherit. So the house won't go to care home fees if she ever needs one. She saves quite a bit of money as she lives frugally but gives it away.

She's my mum of course so I want the best for her and I think she deserves it. She has a very good standard of living having never worked.

But people have to accept that if you want decent public services you have to pay tax. I think many people still think good public services come out of nowhere

There isn’t the money though due to the shrinking worker base

What shrinking worker base?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119783/full-time-workers-in-the-uk/

The only preschools available were based in church halls run by parents sessions were short and we had to pay for them I could only afford for my children to go for two sessions ie 5 hours a week and I had to agree to volunteer for a session. There is much more provision now. There were no nurseries apart form very expensive private ones with no tax free childcare or funded hours
re NHS there were still very long waiting lists so much so that the Labour Party election broadcasts in 1992 focused on long waiting lists. Google Jennifer's ear election broadcast if you haven't heard it. And school's were falling down, I lost count of the number of times my children said the school roof was leaking.
My daughter has seen her health visitor as much as saw mine when my children were young.
We did get child benefit but it was low at around £7 per child and rates were frozen between 1988 and 1990.

Another one who is tired of ageist posts. I worked, and paid hefty taxes, for many years before children. I bought my first flat at 26 by saving hard and doing without holidays and treats. I was happy to use second hand furniture. The interest rates were at least 3 times higher than today's. When my children were born I took time out to look after them ( much better for them) enabling my DP to concentrate on his career and paying tax, and higher rate tax. I did get child benefit which funded part- time playgroups for their social benefit. I went back to work after 6 years, paying plenty more tax. Upon retirement, I have helped care for three parents/ inlaws, pay tax on my pensions and a small part-time job is fully taxed.
I got cheap dental care but it was nowhere near today's standards, so current costs are high, while the kids have near perfect teeth.. My mother was a 50s SAHM, raising 4 children, who eventually went back to work and contributed by teaching for a number of years, only to have her savings eaten away by the care home fees which eventually became inevitable. Life changes, but it is so annoying to see Mumsnetter accusing their elders of 'contributing nothing'.

What shrinking worker base?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119783/full-time-workers-in-the-uk/

The one that takes in account population growth & dependency ratio 😆

“Despite more people working beyond State Pension age, the rise in the total number of over 65s is far greater than the increase in older workers in the last 20 years. There are 2.7 million more over 65s living in the UK than there were in 1998, while the number of workers aged 65 plus has only risen by 800,000.”

“As a result, State Pension spending has continued to rise in recent decades. It amounted to almost £92 billion in 2017 (equivalent to 5.1% of GDP), up from £26 billion in 1992 (3.6% of GDP).”

“Based on current population projections, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) predicts that state pension expenditure will rise to 6.1% of GDP by 20422.”

"enchantedsquirrelwood · Today 17:16

Hillarious · Today 16:54

Let's start to sort out some issues by putting 2p on National Insurance.
Well, quite. What the heck do they think they are doing by reducing it?"

Maybe switching a small proportion of the tax take from income to wealth? I'm cool with that.

Where is it then?

@BIossomtoes you honestly need me to link you a graph that shows the population has grown since 92? 😆

And pls don’t @ me anymore, it’s wasting everyone’s time. Like I said you must have more to your life then being infamous on MNs.

Genuine question(s), how much are the staff paid and how is it paid for?

Are the staff classed as government employees like civil servants are here?

Let's start to sort out some issues by putting 2p on National Insurance.
Well, quite. What the heck do they think they are doing by reducing it?"

Desperate clutching of straws by the Tories.

OK. You don’t @ me. I won’t @ you. Deal?

I worked for 46 years and retired early at 62, during covid, that's probably longer than you will work, if it hadn't have been for covid it would have been 50 years.

Maybe switching a small proportion of the tax take from income to wealth? I'm cool with that.

yep way too much burden on PAYE