People would be happy to pay more tax if it went directly to the NHS

[Blackcats7]

I think people would be happy to pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to the NHS.

A 5% improvement in attendance is an extra 350,000 appointments a month/4 million more a year attended, so quite different! Working on the average appointment cost, that's £1.3 billion a year. Which equates to 150,000 hip replacements, or 700,000 cataract surgeries, or 28,000 full time nurses. So quite a difference!

@Bushmillsbabe may have got it right with this post. Even a 5% percentage improvement within the NHS means a large number. It's always deceptive to think you need better than 20% improvement, but the NHS and the UK population are both so huge that a 0.8% improvement is a huge gain in reducing the waiting list, but equally in increasing the costs.

RCN says 31000 nurses would cost the NHS 3.2 billion!

Bear in mind that 9% of motorists forget to MOT their cars on time, despite the risk of high fines, points on licence and invalidating their insurance.

Is a £5 appointment charge going to change behaviours?

@Alexandra2001

"Is a £5 appointment charge going to change behaviours?"

Actually I think it really would and it's not the amount that is so important it's changing the mindset that you are now paying for something rather than getting it for free.

I know I've been criticised on this thread for referencing carrier bags but I was amazed that by introducing a fee of only 5 pence (rising to 10p) that the use of supermarket carrier bags fell by 98%.

On a normal supermarket bill 5 pence is next to nothing but once it's no longer free and becomes your money then behaviours really do change.

Without some sort of reform there is no point putting more and more money into the NHS. The resources within it need to be better utilised. It has way too many layers of management and needs to get back to basics

@Alexandra2001

"Bear in mind that 9% of motorists forget to MOT their cars on time, despite the risk of high fines, points on licence and invalidating their insurance."

But consumer behaviours are different where it involves remembering to do something especially when it's something you don't want to do such as pay a bill. There's always that "I'll get round to it. " attitude.

I need a gynae op. The waiting list for the NHS is 18 months. I’ve looked at going privately and the cost would be £12,000. That’s how much procedures cost! Is it any wonder the NHS struggles. It needs more money.

Have you any evidence that it would? whats the DNA figures for countries that do charge?

The 5p bag charge did change behaviours but it did not reduce people visiting the supermarket, which would be the aim of your charge, i believe? the charge has also had to go up quite a bit since then, as people went back to their old ways.

A more substantial charge, say £25 (not for a carrier bag!) might but then it would also deter the less well off from visiting the GP when they really need too.

As i said, i think it would be better to address the causes of waiting times, which, from my exp, is the failure to get med fit people out of hospital and either at home or into a care home.
In the case of GPs, its a longer term issue, a failure to train GPs, whatever the reasons, the Govt has failed to address these.

NHS Confed doesn’t thinking charging is the answer

https://www.nhsconfed.org/articles/would-charging-patients-missed-appointments-help-fund-nhs

And a lot of motorists don't "forget" to MOT, insure or tax their car. It's often a deliberate action to save money as they take the view that risks of being caught are small and fines when caught are also relatively small compared with money they've saved.

Completely different to hospital appointments.

So, comparisons can be made to carrier bags but not drivers missing MOTs ???

the MOT comparison is valid, as the 9% figure doesn't include people who deliberately chose not to have an MOT but people who genuinely forget by up to 3 weeks, then get the MOT.

With ANPR, getting caught for no MOT is quite likely.

Min £100 fine (up to £1000) and 3 points, also invalidates insurance, an MOT is £54 often £35,MOT centres.

As the actually research shows, rather than just opinion, charging wont work.

No, no more money should he squeezed from us.

It's the mismanagement of money that should be brought to task

Introducing a cost even if small would change behaviour

Some countries do a minimal charge and the other option is a tax rebate

Not sure how politicians would get people to vote for those even if it would help the NHS, we’re more free at point of use and tax people more

Evidence it would change behaviours? i.e whats the DNA's in countries that charge?

Otherwise its just a knee jerk reaction, that would add a load of admin with no benefit.

A pp linked that it would not.

Personally, i would change the free prescriptions at 60, utterly ridiculous & link that money direct to GP practices in a Trust area.

Research from france - 27 million missed appointments a year

https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/Practical/Health/How-could-no-show-fees-for-GP-appointments-work-in-France

@Alexandra2001 ,

The admin would be no more than picking up an NHS prescription now.

If you qualify for free, you produce a card. If you don’t, you pay £10.

Ultimately, a £10 fee is 3 Costa coffees, but could make a big difference in both raising revenue and improving attitudes on both the patient’s and the GP’s side.

Reform! It is a not fit for purpose money pit.

Yes don’t forget revenue raised due to a fee

The amount of appointments that happen, it would help

The problem is likely more down to votes

That would be like throwing cotton wool into a furnace. It needs reform, less layers of suits and more clinical staff.

The thing is for someone like me (incoming massive privilege warning) £10 is nothing so if for example I forgot or just felt better I’d pay it without a second thought but there are many people generally those in poorest health who do struggle to attend to whom £10 would be off putting. Those people would get sicker and end up costing more in the long run

As an aside its interesting that no matter how many times links to research are posted pointing out that the NHS is under managed and that this means clinical staff have to waste time doing admin/management tasks, people still keep saying it has too many managers

Well, as linked up thread, just 40% pay for prescriptions, even less if you include children.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to deter a child from seeing a GP, without their parent.

Like all these things, simple solutions are rarely "simple"

I don’t know how much it would bring into the health budget to bring free prescriptions in line with state pension age but it really should be done.

That would equate to nurses being paid £102,000 a year on average! I don't know any nurses who earn that much, average is about £40,000

Yes, I think it would. Dentists charge if you don't show, and their dna rates are much lower. But I would never suggest charging for appointments, only charging for repeated DNA's, the cost of that appointment. When someone has paid £100 for missing their consultant appointment, they would be very unlikely to miss it again!

Just going on the RCNs own figures, employment is more than just a salary, pension, NI, holidays and sickness all come into play.

How would you enforce this £100 charge? courts, bailiffs ?

Would totally ruin the Doctor Patient relationship.

The research has been done, its shown not to work, yet posters still go on with their own pet theories.