To think an ambulance should have been called?

[TotoroElla]

Can someone tell me what protocol should be followed in supported accommodation if someone has a fall (unwitnessed - they were heard falling in their room) and shortly afterwards they are found extremely drowsy/non-responsive?

I'm in the middle of trying to make a complaint and still waiting to talk to the manager 6 weeks later. The member of staff involved is still working. The manager just said to me today all procedures were followed correctly and will send me an appointment to speak about it. I want to be prepared to challenge her.

Thanks

No I would not be considered the nearest relative.

Nearest relative is someone involved in their care, do you know if anyone was appointed who may be able to support you both.

Yes risk assessment and policy should be in place. Also ask to see accident report form and what obs were taken post fall to ensure all OK

I recognised this from you posting about it when it happened. When did the staff change their story as to what happened? Have you seen a copy of the incident report with the timeline from both members of staff involved?

Who told you his original diagnosis (stroke)?

Definitely an ambulance. My mum falls from time to time (in care home) and they always ring and tell me and if it's at all a worry, call an ambulance.

@TotoroElla is he s117? I don't know where you are or how services are structures but absolutley raise this as a safeguarding concern both with the local authority and his care team. It'll then be looked into by the right service.

They probably know from experience, you may call an ambulance but how long it takes to come is another thing. They would be considered to be in a place of safety and as long as they are not unconscious or bleeding the wait could be hours and then another long wait in A&E or even in the ambulance outside A&E.
Is there warden onsite?
I would ask what the criteria is for a 999 call out.?
Are family informed when a fall has happened?
Is the GP informed
Is it put on their file.
Do they have an Alarm system to call for help? If used to be a button on a necklace, but now have them as a watch or some accommodation has pull cords or push buttons at skirting board height.
Does the local health board have a Rapid Access team than can be called out .
This is a team of Nurses and Support workers who are called in to assess why the patient fell and can blood test and put in team to follow up with support at home rather than the person being admitted to hospital.
Seeing as a " normal" wait in A&E is at least 5/6 hours anything that can be done to save doing this is much better all round.

If you are unhappy with this get the care commission involved.

Not enough information for response

I fell, Lots of 1st responders around me at the time, called 111, knowing full well the strain on our ambulance service. They told me that because I was still groggy I should go straight to A&E. (Got a priority band stuck on me, but still waited nearly 5 hours to be seen, but that is another story).
Triage nurse was quite forceful about WHY I had fallen because there are urgent checks to be made. My cousin had a fall, she had a brain bleed, and mini-stroke, neither of which were immediately obvious as she could talk and respond, so the "seemed OK" is a fallacy.

Can’t believe I’ve just read this because something nearly identical has just happened to us. My partner’s mum (88) lives in supported accommodation (own flat within complex with a manager/warden in the building (I think). Tonight he rang to say he’s taking her to A &E because she’d had a fall and cut herself badly. He’s still there after many hours. I want to know why the carer did not ring for an ambulance when she was found in that state but instead contacted her son (my partner) who probably didn’t pick up the message until after work because he drives for a living and cannot use his phone, nor does he have voicemail on his phone (don’t ask!). What’s the point of having so called carers if they don’t care 😡

Not me.

If she was able to stand and walk just needing a wound closurer then getting family to transport is quite a sensible plan. Although leaving a message not knowing when it would be received is unusual. In the city I work in (ambulance service) a call like that could easily be a 6hr wait, it also gets so busy at times the request for ambulance is denied and they are told we are to busy to attend. Hence why people are encouraged to make own way.

For instances a lot of gp surgeries used to call for ambulance transfer if they thought a patient was having a heart attack, it's now increasingly common to get a family member to drive them in to avoid the extended wait.

We regularly attend people who've had strokes, broken legs, extreme shortness of breath unable to stand 2-3 hours after the original call was placed. The system is well and truely broken.

I'm not quite sure what you mean? His nearest relative is his mum but I wouldn't describe her as 'involved in his care'.

Yes S117

It took 5 min to come when I called it. And I'm not sure this person can be considered to have 'experience'.

As I said he was unconscious.

This is a young, healthy adult. He doesn't need a call bell.

It's not a CQC registered place.

Good job I've already had plenty of responses! 😂

Sorry to hear about that and I hope you can get to the bottom of it.

I suspect if he did call 111 in the first instance for advice he'd probably be 'covered' as having sought medical assistance, 111 typically work out of the same building as 999 and if you call 111 with something obviously needing an ambulance 111 just allocate it to the ambulance stack at what they think the appropriate coding is. There'd be minimal delay.

Yes an ambulance should have been called.

It wasn't you?

That's extremely strange as this almost exact situation happened to someone else around the same time

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4962751-how-long-should-i-wait-for-an-ambulance

My questions still stand though - have you seen a copy of the incident/accident report?

Well of they’d thought he’d taken something an ambulance should 100% have been called!!!
If they suspected a fall/Banff to the head an ambulance should have been called!

My friend works with vulnerable adults and she called an ambulance after a resident fell, she wasn’t knocked unconscious and seemed fine but my friend called an ambulance to be on the safe side…. Lady was taken to hospital and died that night from a brain bleed!!!

I would complain as staff were negligent at the very least! Write it out and mark it as an official complaint…. Go higher to the area manager if the on site manager isn’t responding other than to say ‘protocol was followed’ …
I would also be asking to see their policies and protocols for falls / suspected overdose as I’d bet my house in it that calling an ambulance is the first thing they should’ve done because staff are told to cover their arses!
I worked in MH and we had a client spread pills all over his table and claim he’d taken loads…. We knew from experience with this guy that he wouldn’t have taken a single pill and the amount on the table backed this BUT because he was saying he had and non of us were witness to whether he had or hadn’t we still had to call an ambulance and state it was a suspected overdose!
Staff should always be over cautious in the care profession - it’s not worth being sued for!!

Young, fit and healthy but you were unable to wake them and they were foaming at the mouth? This just screams call an ambulance! to me.

Dismissing it as they must have 'taken something' is simply not good enough if they have a duty of care towards your relation.

I see there's been an update and my comment was no longer relevant.