To think an ambulance should have been called?

[TotoroElla]

Can someone tell me what protocol should be followed in supported accommodation if someone has a fall (unwitnessed - they were heard falling in their room) and shortly afterwards they are found extremely drowsy/non-responsive?

I'm in the middle of trying to make a complaint and still waiting to talk to the manager 6 weeks later. The member of staff involved is still working. The manager just said to me today all procedures were followed correctly and will send me an appointment to speak about it. I want to be prepared to challenge her.

Thanks

If he lied that's very serious, is he a registered nurse or a carer, is he a lone worker, 1 member if staff doesn't sound right in a carehome. I would ask to read his careplan, the notes and incident report made that day and an updated careplan. The manager won't tell you if any discipline has been taken, if its not a safe environment then report to cqc and social services. Is he epileptic, the foaming at the mouth is unusual.

How long between hearing the fall and checking on them?
You hear someone fall down you would immediately go and see what has happened. Unresponsive is a 999 call, no matter who it is, you don't need the unconscious persons permission to call, they can refuse care when they wake up if they want, but calling can save a life.

Based on what you’ve said, I would have expected an ambulance to be called.

Unwitnessed fall, staff member had reason to suspect drugs were involved and the person was unresponsive. As a nurse, yes I would have called an ambulance.

What was the outcome when they got to the hospital, and how are they doing now?

Always call 999 for an unconscious person, that's an emergency ambulance response.

I work in this field, yes I would expect an ambulance to be called when someone had an unexplained, un observed fall and was showing the signs you have said.
I would have lots of questions -
How did he get back into bed? Have they moved him?
What mobility needs does he have?
What support should he receive overnight, e.g. is he one to one or is it shared.
I would be reporting this a safeguarding to the local authority.

Thank you - that is what I thought. Honestly, I saw no frothing of the mouth but the member of staff told me 'I think he's taken something. I can tell because some of my friends do drugs. (???) We should just leave him be.'

All the more reason to call an ambulance if he maybe overdosed and collapsed, the staff member sounds very unsafe, untrained and shouldn't be working in that environment if he can't look after vulnerable clients safely. Is it private or council funded.

And that person is ‘looking after’ vulnerable people 😫 all the more reason to call the bloody ambulance if that’s what they suspected!

I got there probably an hour after it had happened. I was phoning him and he wasn't answering and so I phoned the house. Spoke to the member of staff who was very evasive. I asked if he was ok and he told me 'I've only just got here' so I said 'But surely you've had handover' to which he replied 'this is bullshit...' So I decided to head over. This man is in sole charge of about 8 residents!!

If they genuinely thought he had taken something then even more reason to call a bloody ambulance!

I would ask to see all of their policies, lone working doesn’t sound right either - we HAD to have two staff members minimum on every shift, and if one called in sick agency staff were called and staff stayed on until they arrived.

Can I ask what sort of setting this is?

So he was unconscious after an hour?! That's scary!! What level of supported living is it?

Hi OP

I'm in Scotland and so I know there are funding differences and it'll also depend on the setting. But, I work for social services and we fund supported accommodations. If it's appropriate (and there is one) I'd contact the social worker / funding authority to complain. I'd also contact the regulatory body (in Scotland the care inspectorate) to raise a concern. I'd be concerned about the members of staffs attitude / response and (potentially) the staff ratio (depending on the setting).

Of course, if your son has the ability / capacity to do so, he could raise the complaint himself. If he is unable to then I think it's important to advocate on his behalf.

Paramedic. Yes. I would expect to be called to something like this. I would be unhappy and be requesting an explanation if this were my relative.

Unwitnessed fall with reduced level of consciousness and possible ‘foaming at the mouth’ should be treated as a collapse until proven otherwise. He could have had a seizure and fallen, had a cardiac episode, fallen and sustained a closed head injury and so on.

Was the fall witnessed, though? And presumably they weren't unconscious.

Were they ok? Had they had a head injury or bleed?

If he thought that your relative took drugs that is more reason to call an ambulance, it should have 100% been called and this person should not been entrusted with the care of anyone.

I don't live in the Uk but in Ireland we have a complaints body who will go in and look into incidents like this, introduce changes and if needs be close down poorly run facilities like this. I hope there is similar in the Uk. You are being dismissed in the hope you go away. This is wrong and I am sorry that you are dealing with this.

I'm a doctor. Being unconscious is a very good reason to call an urgent ambulance. It could be a primary problem such as a stroke/ intracranial bleed or cardiac problem or other cause if collapse such as seizure or it could be a mechanical fall with a secondary head injury or bleed etc.
what happened??

He's a carer. They always have 1 at night. It's not a care home it's supported accommodation. The next night after the incident he was back working there. Surely he needs retraining?? I don't think it's safe. I was thinking if I'm not satisfied after speaking to the manager to report to CQC and adult social care is good too. He is not epileptic. I'm concerned this has dragged on for 6 weeks. The manager has only just looked into it.

I don't know.

So what actually happened and what was wrong ???

Genuinely unconscious has to be one of the better reasons for calling an ambulance. This does seem rather suboptimal.

Why are you drip feeding this information. It would've been much more straightforward to understand what happened.

Yes, me too. Although there didn't actually appear to be a reason to suspect drugs. The paramedics quizzed the member of staff who couldn't explain it. He also didn't know if my family member had taken any medication - so clearly had not checked his chart or not listened at handover/not given proper handover.

It turned out he'd had some anti-histermines. These possibly made him drowsy and then the member of staff knocked on his door, he got up and fell. They said he had a concussion but he recovered well.

My brother is in a care home for disabled adults. He falls probably 3 times a week. Falls when he's walking with a frame, with a stick, falls out of bed. Bangs his head sometimes, other times his arms. He just falls over. Always has done. At the start the carers were horrified and now after a couple of years they know he will need five minutes to get himself together and get up again. Sometimes if he's cut himself badly he will be taken to hospital to get patched up. More often it's a cup of tea and a biscuit. Context is everything in these matters.

Right ok. How old is he