Sisters annoying habit making meeting unbearable

[FruitFlyPie]

My sister and I are in our 30s, live in the same city and see each other every 2-3 weeks. We get along so well and always have. But she has an annoying habit that is so unbearable I feel I can't spend time with her anymore.

She hasn't been diagnosed or sought medical help for anxiety or any other physical or mental illness, but like most of us she has some level of anxiety and has some body focused repetitive behaviours. Since been a teen she has had a habit of pulling out individual strands of head hair and closely examining them. That's pretty annoying but it's bearable.

But the last few years she has a habit of pulling out individual strands, and poking them in between her teeth or using them to floss her teeth. She does this right in front of me, during lunch, while we are chatting, whatever we are doing. I find it so disgusting to watch I can't bear it. I try to ignore it but it goes on continuously. I've asked her to stop but she just gets angry and says look away if you don't like it. I've tried that but for example if it's at the dinner table, I can still see her doing it out if the corner of my eye.

I suppose it's not hurting me but I find it disgusting, and also disrespectful that she doesn't care enough about me to not do it in front of me. She wouldn't do it in front of her friends or at work, so I know she can stop. Why not wait until she gets home, or worst case go to the bathroom for a few minutes and do it.

Am I over reacting? I haven't told her this and I try to keep a blank but I hate it so so much and feel rage when I even think about it. I don't want to spend time with her anymore. It's such a shame though because we get on so well.

I think you are taking something personally that isn’t personal at all, and relating it to respect and who is more important and who is less important.
It sounds like a remnant of childhood dynamics.

Growing up, did you feel you were expected to put your sister first?
Did you find it arduous?
Is it bringing up an imbedded very old feeling of injustice and frustration?

Perhaps this is unearthing other feelings and the two have become wrapped up together.

You cannot change her begs, but perhaps you can change your reaction to it. Perhaps a few sessions with a therapist, for example a hypnotherapist might be helpful.

It may be more useful for you to look upon this as involuntary mental illness.
Your sister is not well and needs your compassion rather than criticism.
Might you speak very gently to her, ask her how she is, tell her you’re very concerned about her level anxiety and you would like to help by making her an appointment with her GP, or booking her a specialist appointment with a therapist.

The above my disarm her defensiveness.

Try and compromise. I have severe misophonia and my Dad agrees not to tut in front of me. In return I don't use the C word in front of him!

Personally I’d do one of two things .. go to the loo or for a little wander so you don’t have to endure it. Alternatively give her something to hold when she starts, possibly something you have ready in your bag, a book you want her to read or a wrapped sweet or dental floss

I hope you can ignore the few posts that are strangely harsh and focus on the more constructive ones, OP. Your feelings are completely reasonable here and I do hope you can manage to make a space where you can talk about this in a useful way with your sister.

I think it needs to be a really slow conversation, that gives time for her to feel the wave of defensive fury without backing out of the conversation altogether. I'm sure that part of the reason she feels this fury is that she knows that the behaviour is unacceptable, but just feels really threatened by the loss of comfort associated with stopping.
The sense of threat is probably really deep. I find it hard to articulate why it is so deep -- I just have this really strong sense of how threatened and angry I felt as a child and as a young adult when family members and boyfriends tried to stop me biting my nails. It felt almost violating. I guess this is because self-soothing is part of how we keep ourselves safe and separate.
And if your sister is like me, the anger creates a kind of shutting down, a refusal to take time to think about her own vulnerability and your legitimate needs and feelings. The shutdown of feelings is already present in the self-soothing behaviours, and it is intensified when your complaint about the behaviours threatens her with the thought that she might need to abandon them.
It sounds like you have a good relationship with your sister. So perhaps you will be able to find ways to surf that initial wave of anger on her part and stick with the conversation for long enough to acknowledge what I'm sure she knows - that it isn't ok to do this in front of you.

It occurs to me that deep down inside she doesn't feel comfortable with you and that's why she does it. Asking her to stop leaves her having to face up to that fact while shes talking to you ie it would stop her being able to talk to you.

It hasn't come across on this thread but apart from this we have a good relationship. It's not just forced small talk at family events. We are close and I've always considered us friends as well as sisters.

Grimchmas advice is solid. Have that conversation once, at a neutral time and place.

Then a gentle exercise in negative reinforcement. Don't name it but the moment she starts, walk away, go to the loo, say 'sorry I have to go now' if she asks why you can tell her but otherwise don't bring it up.

It's possible she has had negative feedback from others at eg work which has conditioned her behaviour to avoid doing it.

Here's the thing about families. Why are we expected to tolerate things just because we are related? If this was a romantic or plutonic friendship you would be allowed to set boundaries especially if the other person was doing nothing to address it. Why are you not allowed these boundaries in a sibling relationship?

I don’t think either of you are being unreasonable but neither of you are fully understanding each other I don’t think.

And as a PP said, you’re taking it as something personal when it isn’t.

As close family, you are one of the few people who can request that your sister addresses her flossing with hair in public issue.
Refuse to accept that she does this in your company.

If she will not seek help, fine, but you will not tolerate seeing it.
Meet her, every time, ask her to stop doing that in public and to go to the bathroom. If she continues, get up and leave.

It is in your sister's best interests that you love and accept her but not her antisocial and unreasonable behaviour.

Honestly, the flossing thing is DISGUSTING

It's beyond me how flossing in front of other people is reasonable

It absolutely is NOT reasonable

Of course she can stop. You've told us she can

No way would I see someone who chose to do something which upsets me, in front of me, when I know she can choose not to do it

Ok, name changed for this as it would be outing.

I had trich most of my life - from around 10-40. It waxed and waned over the years, but when it was bad I found it very difficult to stop and I looked bald in places. Obviously I didn't want to do it... except I did it, because it made me feel 'better'. I could stop myself doing it in public most of the time, but if I felt stressed my hands would go to my head, at least. I did it around my parents and partner without thinking, because they were people I was comfortable with - I assume as a sister you'd be the same. I usually had very little awareness of having started doing it, you're zoned out a lot of the time.

If you haven't told her often how much you hate her doing it, she probably thinks it's ok around you. And if you tell her to stop while she's doing it, she will get angry - it feels horrible to stop when you're in the middle of doing it. I used to do the root/teeth thing too (it's not flossing, it's just running it between your teeth. It's very common.) and pulling out a hair but not doing that would make me feel excruciatingly uncomfortable.

Your best approach would be to gently say you're worried about her and want to help her to stop. Getting angry will just make her more stressed. She probably doesn't want to stop because it makes her feel good. It's known for being almost impossible to fully recover from, so she may be able to reduce it or stop for a while, it almost always comes back. You could suggest therapy, hypnotherapy, fidget toys, removing sugar from her diet, a supplement called NAC, or anxiety medication, which are all known treatments. Making it all about you (I find it disgusting, I feel uncomfortable with you doing it) is entirely unhelpful.

Just reading that has made me nauseous

I think i would have to avoid seeing her and gently encourage some therapy

NHS advice is basic but useful: https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/trichotillomania/

There is a lot of information available online, and also some quite useful Facebook groups and forums. It might be a good idea for you to have a read of some to understand your sister better.

Yep, did most posters miss the bit after the hair comes out? Comparing it to biting nails or cracking knuckles? Yikes

How do you know she doesn't do it at work/with friends @FruitFlyPie? Presumably you're not with her at these times?
If she's doing it at family gatherings, what do others think/have they said anything to her about it?
Do you expect her to be psychic? If you've told her only 3 times in many years, she doesn't know the extent to which it bothers you does she? "Please don't do that" is really not the same as "That truly revolts me, churns my stomach. I hate that you do it and don't respect me when I ask you not to. Every fibre of my being is screaming STOP IT and I'm clenching so hard to avoid letting it out. I don't want to upset you. You don't seem to care much about upsetting me."

Does it upset you that in the moment she may be suffering?

Does that add to your distress because it reminds you all is not well with her?

I'm sure it does, ventbox. How could it not?
We all suffer and we all have a range of strategies - many of them more-or-less dysfunctional - for medicating our suffering. The fact that the OP's sister has landed on this particularly salient strategy doesn't necessarily mean that her suffering is worse than others or more worthy of accommodation.
I chew my nails and fingers to the point of bleeding and it was only during covid, when everyone was more conscious of hygiene, that I really clocked how disgusting my habit might be for some people.
It sounds like these sisters do have mutual compassion and it is just a case of finding the right structure for talking it through. A suggestion above from a sufferer of trichotillomania (sp??) seemed a really good one - not to bring up the problem while the sister is actually engaged in the behaviour, but to choose a different moment

If this is a coping mechanism of some sort then she is perfectly entitled to do it.

But you are also perfectly entitled to dislike it and not want to see it.

Neither of you are wrong or unreasonable.

If she doesn't do it in front of others, then two things spring to mind. Is it that she feels safe with you? Or, conversely, is there something about meeting up with you that causes her to feel more stressed?

You won't know unless you address it. Bringing it up face to face causes friction, so can you message her? Say you understand it's something she does, but you would like to be able to talk about it as you have a couple of questions. Why does she do it more with you? What can you do to minimise the stresses in restaurants etc., as it is actually causing you anxiety when she does it at that those times

I would find it gross if anyone started flossing at the table, let alone with their own hair. I agree @FruitFlyPie it is rude and disrespectful.

Food particles and bacteria are being splattered out of her mouth. Yuk. What does she do with the hair when she has finished flossing? Just leave it for the waiter/waitress to clean up?

She might have a compulsion and not be able to help it, but if OP is telling her it is unpleasant, she surely can stand up and go to a bathroom to do it in private.

That's disgusting particularly as she choses who she does it in front of. It's like my sister - coleslaw/mayo absolutely turns her stomach but I love it but knowing how much it affects her, I never eat it in front of her, just like she doesn't put in or take out contact lenses in front of me. It's called being an adult!

@FruitFlyPie

I would encourage to seek some kind of therapies which address both issues 🤔 behind the emotional /psychological tendancy behaviour of the hair pulling ect,

There's is a speacial name for this begins with T,
I am not sure how to spell it though,

and also another type of therapy which helps supports to change the self destructive sabotaging behaviour

@Createausername1970

I like your emotionally insightful 👌 post ..

Phone her more. Decline invitations to meet.
When she asks why, tell her you have a personal problem that is a bit embarrassing.
She will probably accept that initially, but in time she will probably challenge you for meeting up with other people, and why not with her?
With great reluctance and huge apologies, you reveal that you cannot cope with the hair-flossing. That it makes you feel a) queasy and b) upset to the point that it is spoiling time together, so for the sake of your relationship it’s better to just speak in the phone. Say it all with empathy and apology so that she doesn’t feel attacked.
The ball is in her court, then.

Flip that round and think maybe it's not about respect, it's about her perception of understanding and acceptance. Her friends and colleagues might not understand this and make disrespectful comments/judgements. However in front of you and your family she feels comfortable enough to do this. She's probably already full of shame and embarrassment that she does this and there's no "quick fix" treatment

What does she do with the hair when she has finished flossing? Just leave it for the waiter/waitress to clean up?

She just throws it on the floor. To be fair it's one hair at a time so this aspect of it doesn't bother me.

If this is a coping mechanism of some sort then she is perfectly entitled to do it.

Yes - in private though.