Sisters annoying habit making meeting unbearable

[FruitFlyPie]

My sister and I are in our 30s, live in the same city and see each other every 2-3 weeks. We get along so well and always have. But she has an annoying habit that is so unbearable I feel I can't spend time with her anymore.

She hasn't been diagnosed or sought medical help for anxiety or any other physical or mental illness, but like most of us she has some level of anxiety and has some body focused repetitive behaviours. Since been a teen she has had a habit of pulling out individual strands of head hair and closely examining them. That's pretty annoying but it's bearable.

But the last few years she has a habit of pulling out individual strands, and poking them in between her teeth or using them to floss her teeth. She does this right in front of me, during lunch, while we are chatting, whatever we are doing. I find it so disgusting to watch I can't bear it. I try to ignore it but it goes on continuously. I've asked her to stop but she just gets angry and says look away if you don't like it. I've tried that but for example if it's at the dinner table, I can still see her doing it out if the corner of my eye.

I suppose it's not hurting me but I find it disgusting, and also disrespectful that she doesn't care enough about me to not do it in front of me. She wouldn't do it in front of her friends or at work, so I know she can stop. Why not wait until she gets home, or worst case go to the bathroom for a few minutes and do it.

Am I over reacting? I haven't told her this and I try to keep a blank but I hate it so so much and feel rage when I even think about it. I don't want to spend time with her anymore. It's such a shame though because we get on so well.

I don't see any compassion from you to her at all!

I think I'm being quite fair. I've put up with it for years and said nothing. I let her do it for hours and say nothing. I'd be happy with a compromise, like her trying to stop, cutting back, doing it for a short time or changing the behaviour so she plucks the hair but doesn't put it in her mouth.

I matter as well.

What's your BFRB utterly?

Ohhh unclench a bit!! She quite clearly does show compassion but we are all allowed to be stressed and at breaking point. Just because someone is family doesn’t mean we need to roll over and put up with situations that make us uncomfortable.

OP says her sister has not obtained medical help for anxiety yet she is just meant to put up with someone flossing at the table?!?

Well if I take what you're saying at face value, she's a selfish person who doesn't respect you. But that doesn't tally with the close loving relationship you describe.

If that is true of her and it comes out in other ways in your relationship, then you shouldn't feel obliged to keep up the relationship (or certainly not to this extent). Cut back on how often you see her, or maybe try leaving when she starts doing the thing - just say you can't be around her when she's doing that and leave. If it really is under her conscious control and she is CHOOSING to disrespect you, either she'll stop when you assert the boundary, or she'll double down and that will prove to you she doesn't value the relationship.

However I suspect it is all a lot more complex than that for her and you know that really, you're just currently angry and disgusted and venting. I guess I'm interested to know more about your background, your relationship outside of this unwanted behaviour, the usual dynamic between you. Because by itself, I wouldn't have thought this thing would be so problematic as to undermine the relationship. My partner cracks his knuckles and it gives me the heebie jeebies; I bite and then eat my nails and I know he finds it revolting so I try not to do it around him but don't always succeed - again it's mostly unconscious. But we love each other so we put up with each others' less lovely behaviour, we know it's not deliberate and we want each other to be comfortable.

I'd also question your equation of hair with snot - it's not a bodily fluid! I stroke my child's hair, but I've never yet stuck my finger up her nose 😂

OP says her sister has not obtained medical help for anxiety yet she is just meant to put up with someone flossing at the table?!?

Well exactly. She isn't receiving help, or trying to stop or even cut back. She just says its fine, not disgusting and there's no problem.

If I didn't love and care about her I wouldn't be here making this thread. I'd just say oh well, forget our relationship and see her once a year at christmas.

I think you're underplaying the anxiety here. Trichotillomania/skin picking are quite severe anxiety symptoms. Most people if feeling a normal-life level of anxious take a deep breath and rationalise, or have a cup of tea, or talk to a friend, or maybe more unhealthily have a glass of wine or a fag, or eat some chocolate. Systematically attacking your own bodies for years to your own detriment (bald patches, sore damaged skin, difficulty in your personal relationships). It isn't "normal" anxiety behaviour. It's extreme. There will be something underlying it that warrants further investigation.

If it really is under her conscious control

Yes its complex. I don't think she is doing it on purpose to annoy me, at first, but when she realises she's doing it, she doesn't say "oops" and stop, she keeps doing it. And that part of it is conscious.

I bite and then eat my nails and I know he finds it revolting so I try not to do it around him but don't always succeed

Major difference though - you try not to do it. The respect and care for him is there, even if you don't succeed.

I'm not sure if she does it in front of her partner, and what he thinks of it if she does.

I guess I'm interested to know more about your background, your relationship outside of this unwanted behaviour, the usual dynamic between you. Because by itself, I wouldn't have thought this thing would be so problematic as to undermine the relationship.

I don't know how to describe our relationship really, its just a normal close sister relationship. We get along and chat, close but don't live in each others pockets. Pretty normal family really with nothing unusual. I suppose our dynamic is a little like I'm more careful what I say towards her, she would feel free to tell me to stop doing something, or make a bit of a rude comment, whereas I wouldn't do that back to her.

This thread is actually making me think of the many ways I am annoying - I am normally a very quietly spoken person, to the point I get asked to speak up at work etc. But when I get animated (interesting chat at dinner table for e.g.) i tend to lose my volume control and get quite loud. Drives my older sister demented, and she ALWAYS pulls me up on it, every time. By your lights I should then meekly lower my voice, and maybe I should, but actually what happens is I get annoyed and defensive - because she's pulled me out of the good time I'm having, made me self-conscious, and she's my older sister and I don't like being scolded/told what to do by her. Our dynamic is that she's a bit parentified due to our family background, and as we've grown to adult women we've had to find our way around that - her by accepting she doesn't ALWAYS know best/have a right to correct my behaviour, me by learning to respect her as a fellow adult not become a truculent teen when she "tells me off"/asserts her boundaries and wishes.

I just think both things can't be true- that you have a good, loving relationship, and that she is so gung ho about upsetting you like this.

I know what you mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect or that I'm right or that she has to do what I say. But I see a difference between little habits that could be a bit annoying, but are part of normal behaviour, like speaking a bit loudly at times. I'd also include things like nail biting here. And habits that are objectively gross and just not really socially acceptable in company - like farting repeatedly on purpose, picking your nose or plucking your hair and using it to floss your teeth.

But if he was always telling me to stop it, I'd probably get fucked off with him tbh - maybe not fairly, but they're my damn nails! Just as I'm sure if every time he cracked his joints I shuddered and told him how disgusting it is to me. Surely you just put up with some things for the people you love rather than making an issue of it, if you accept it's unconscious and not done on purpose to annoy you? Or that's my approach anyway (although as I say possibly because I'm super annoying with all my weird self soothing and otherwise unconscious behaviours and I'm hoping for forgiveness 😂)

Just to be clear I don't think YABU, I just don't think she is really either and I see it more from her point of view. But maybe what's needed is a serious chat, not in the moment but consciously, just explaining to her how much of an issue it is for you and asking her if you can work out a system she doesn't find too oppressive whereby you can let her know she's doing it, it's bothering you, and you'd like her to stop without it being a big thing, or for her to accept you need to leave the room while she's doing it. From that open dialogue you can work out if she is just being selfish, or if she values you enough to work on it. The alternative is you try and learn to ignore it, but obviously for some reason this bugs you in a completely unavoidable way so I think the big talk is necessary.

I agree it's disgusting. I couldn't tolerate seeing that either. Flossing your teeth with a hair is beyond 🤢

But if he was always telling me to stop it, I'd probably get fucked off with him tbh - maybe not fairly, but they're my damn nails!

This has made me realise what some of the problem I think. I actually don't tell her off or to stop, I've only mentioned it maybe 3 times in a couple of years. So from my perspective, its taken so so much self control and putting up with it. And she doesn't feel grateful for that. Instead she's annoyed about the 3 times I have politely spoken up. I feel like I'm putting in so much effort and she doesn't even care, let alone trying to meet me half way.

We went out that other day and she was doing it in the passenger seat while I driving, the whole trip. I tried not to look but I could see it out of the corner of my eye and couldn't close my eyes obviously or get out of the situation. I didn't say anything though.

Just on this, with compulsive or sensory behaviours avoiding doing them is masking and people tend to mask more the less safe they feel. My DC are Autistic and have various stims which are rarely seen in public, but a lot at home and less at their Dads house. They stim more when tired or distressed, it can be methods of coping. The anger may be because she feels comfortable enough to be herself around you and family and it being bought up shows her that there's not anyone she can just be her with. Of course this is only one possibility, but I wanted to bring it up because its not necessarily about respect and you thinking of it that way might be part of why you feel so much more distressed by it than you used to. I understand why this is so distressing to you and I understand if you need to be around it less. Just wanted you to know that not masking around you doesn't necessarily mean she respects you less.

I dont know about hair specifically but if as PPs said its related to stims like skin picking there are fidgets to give the same sensory input that people get from that. If she has sensory issues it might help to meet somewhere quiet, that's not busy or bright. There might be certain times of day or certain days of the week when she can cope better and needs the behaviour less.

I fully get this. It is infuriating feeling uncared for. And that your effort to be tolerant is going unappreciated. It does sound like you're a lovely sister and she should value that more. Hopefully a really good talk, not at the point it's happening and not in front of others, will help at least to clarify your feelings and hers x

She isn't ND. I know you might say you wouldn't know etc and I suppose anything is possible, but she has never had any person throughout life suggest that, showed any symptoms or thought it herself.

shows her that there's not anyone she can just be her with

I guess the problem is, who can I be myself around? Why can't I have a relaxed time with my family? She should be coddled and I should watch my words. Why? Is she more important than me? Also I don't think our gross annoying habits are "ourselves". I fart a lot in private but thats not my personality!

I'd be completely fine if she used a fidget toy or suggested meeting a certain place or time. The problem is, she sees no problem!

This thread has also usefully reminded me to stop getting on my daughter's case for chewing her clothes 🥴 which drives me crackers but which I know she really can't help. I used to chew my own jumper cuffs at school so why it drives me so bonkers when she does it I don't know - probably because I'm paying!

Hopefully a really good talk, not at the point it's happening and not in front of others, will help at least to clarify your feelings and hers x

Yes, thank you for your thoughtful posts. I will try this. I suppose I don't bring it up when it isn't happening as I don't want ruin a good time. But yes that would be the calmest way.

Some of the things you're saying now really get to the nub of the issue, which isn't so much what your sister is doing as how it makes you feel, and how she is responding to those feelings. Maybe try writing her a letter/long text outlining these more vulnerable feelings? Might be more effective than the in the moment request for her to stop.

Not sure its as simple as choosing not to when with others.
It occurs to me that deep down inside she doesn't feel comfortable with you and that's why she does it. Asking her to stop leaves her having to face up to that fact while shes talking to you ie it would stop her being able to talk to you.

I think I'm being quite fair. I've put up with it for years and said nothing. I let her do it for hours and say nothing.

I think this is part of the problem (problem isn't quite the right word so bare with me) - you have only mentioned it three times in all these years. From your perspective you've exercised huge restraint and tolerance, but from hers, it's been perfectly acceptable behaviour to you for years and you're therefore being totally unreasonable those few times that you do mention it.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, but I do think that's probably what's going on from her point of view.

I also think that hard as it's going to be you do need to have a talk with her at a time when you're going to remain calm and grounded and compassionate, and explain that it really does distress you to witness her flossing with her hair. Emphasise that you love her, that you're worried about her, and also that you'd like her to not do it when she's with you.

If she gets defensive as you suspect that she will, first tell her that you're worried about her mental health and would like to support her going to the doctor to see if she can get some help for it. If she says "but you normally don't say anything," it's time for compassionate honestly- that it really has bothered you this whole time and you've squashed your feelings down for her sake for years but can no longer do that and that your feelings matter too.

I'd also ultimately tell her that if she isn't prepared to seek help for it, and if she wishes to keep doing it in my company, that it will limit the amount of times that I want to spend in her company. And follow through - decide if you're going to leave when she starts, or after say 10 minutes of it, and stick to it. Stay calm, don't make a fuss, but just "I'm sorry, as I have said, this is distressing to me and if you're not prepared to stop doing it in my company then I'm going to leave when you do it."

can you talk to her about getting help
getting some sort of fidget toy, or whatever they offer for adults,

Thank you Grimchmas, your post is very thoughtful. That is a good way to approach it.

Maybe from her perspective, I'm not bothered but I'm just saying it to annoy her. From my perspective, I've held back literally hundreds of times - what's the equilvant kind thing she has done for me?

I feel I can't win. If I say something, no matter now nicely - I'm nagging her, I'm bossing her around. If I say nothing - well how is she to know, I'm being unfair.

This is the weirdest solution ever 😂 really hope you're joking?

OP I'd stop eating out with her.