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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want dd2 to come home from nursery with 4th bite mark on her hand

31 replies

dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 16:31

dd2 is 22months old and goes to a private nursery in the morning.

she has been bitten 4 times on the hand by another child in the same room as her - the same child each time apparently

now, I fully understand that kids bicker and that she herself is no angel BUT

we pay a fortune for a high staff to child ration in that room I think 1:3 by law and this is the 4th time it has happened

each time it is explained that dd and another child are fighting over a toy and the other child sinks their teeth in marking dh for a few days

ok, kids fight and want the same toys, I fully accept this but where are the staff at this point in time and why is it allowed to get to the stage where one of them has the opportunity to sunk the teeth in enough to leave a mark that lasts for a day at least?

dh had to sign the note as he picked her up today and it stated

'dd2 and another child were fighting over a toy causing the other child to bite dd2?!?'

if they're fighting - surely split them up and distract them ffs, don't let it get that far

am I being unreasonable to expect this of the staff who are normally fantastic?

OP posts:
FarCanal · 25/03/2008 16:37

Staff doing the job properly should be talking to the other child's parents. As this is a recurring problem they should be addressing it seriously and making sure the parents in question know that this is unnacceptable behaviour and will have to stop if they wish to continue using the facility.

CaptainUnderpants · 25/03/2008 16:44

You cannot threatened a parent that if their child ( under 2yrs ?) doesn't stop bitting they will be expelled !

If their is a problem with the child then yes the staff should address it and mention it to the parents but you cannot threaten parents like that - well on dodgy ground.

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 16:46

am not questioning the child or their parents, am questioning why the staff are not managing to intervene sooner, a couple of times fair enough, there are none of us super human or have eyes on back of our head but this is the 4th occassion in a short time

OP posts:
Reallytired · 25/03/2008 16:50

I think the OP is right in that the staff need to supervise the children more closely. They need to be aware that child X has a habit of biting and removing him or her from the situation before he or she actually bites.

FarCanal,
What planet are you on?

For gawd, sake you are talking about under twos. I don't think the OP is asking for the other child to be permamently excluded from the nursery.

What do you expect the other parents to do? They are babies, they are in nappies probably. There is no point in punishing a child under two, they won't understand.

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 16:54

am not asking for anyone to be excluded from anything or even kept seperate etc

just where the heck are the staff and what are they doing if two of them (mine included in this too) get to the point of fighting and one of them bites?!

OP posts:
DoubleBluff · 25/03/2008 16:57

I had this issue when DS1 was at a nursery and found it really distressing to think that the staff weren't doing anything to stop the other child from biting.
And yes at the time I felt like telling them to stop the other child attending nursery!!
The staff should intervene sooner IMO!

CarGirl · 25/03/2008 17:00

having siblings close in age I wonder if the "biter" is now biting very quickly without escalation to give the staff much warning. However whichever the case I think you are within your rights/expectations to say to your dc's key worker that you would like closer supervision of them together until the phase has passed.

yurt1 · 25/03/2008 17:02

1:1 won't stop biting. So no chance with 1:3. It's not about the staff not doing their job properly. It's usually just a phase some children go through. One of the risks of group childcare.

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 17:16

but surely if they know this child is a 'biter' and see them fighting they could stop if before they get to that stage?

I have 2dc and realise its impossible to stop them sometimes but 4 times to me makes more of a pattern?

I AM paying them to supervise my dd when I unfortunatley can't due to work commitments so am thinking am within my rights to mention am not happy about it happening for the 4th time?

OP posts:
CarGirl · 25/03/2008 17:20

Yurt1 - did your child actually bite in front of you because I know my dds only did it when I wasn't supervising them?

dizzy it's been 4 times in how many days/sessions? I think you can mention that your not happy about it because you pay them to look after your dd!

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 17:24

4 times in about a month or 6wks cargirl
I think I'll have to mention it tomorrow as the girls are great and am normally very happy with the level of care - don't want this to change my opinion

I think if they tell me they have something in place for the biter, i.e watch them more carefully and a time out for them BOTH when they're fighting I'll be happy enough

does that sound reasonable?

OP posts:
yurt1 · 25/03/2008 17:38

Ds1 does everything in front of everyone. He went through a phase of pinching and scratching at nursery (for about 2 weeks, luckily since then anything painful has been confined to adults and siblings). He had 1:1 the entire time he was at nursery. Overall I think (thank god) he's been bitten/scratched/pinched whatever far more than he's ever inflicted.

A nursery should have a strategy for a persistent biter. It's worth asking if your child is being singled out. If they're not then it might be very difficult for the nursery to be that effective. If they are then you can ask for some sort of separation for a while if possible.

CarGirl · 25/03/2008 17:54

4 times in 25ish sessions isn't a huge frequency IMHO. I think if you can stay calm about it you could ask the staff if your dd is being singled out or what strategies they use in this type of situation, whether they think the situation is escalating etc.

I think it's how you say it because if you're not very careful it could cause a rift between you and the staff which would not be good.

CaptainUnderpants · 25/03/2008 17:54

Dizzie , ,my posting about exclusion wasn't directed at you , it was in response to Farcanals solution .

I totally agree with you otherwise , hope it gets resolved

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 18:00

no problem captain, just hoped I hadn't implied it

am wary of upsetting staff too cargirl which is why I think I should speak to them and not dh

it isn't a huge frequency but its still my baby being bitten so would prefer to think am taking steps to stop it

OP posts:
babbi · 25/03/2008 19:17

I don`t honestly know what you can reasonably expect the staff to do . At best there is 1 to 3 ratio but there are times when it is less due to illness etc though nurseries tend not to advertise to parents on the days they were running slightly short .
As another poster said even 1 to 1 this kind of thing will happen it is a stage that most kids go through at one time or other.
It has simply happened to your child so often as she is in a group care setting.
It happens so quickly - the staff could not get there in time.
As they get older it will stop..

Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 19:22

it never happened to dd1 in a group setting and I don't believe for one second I shout accept her getting hurt this often as acceptable and wait for them to grow up and grow out of it

I have to pay increased fees specifically for the higher ratio of staff to child although appreciate staff shortages can on occassion mean its not always in place I think by now they should be aware of the fact the this one child is a bit bite happy as a way of resolving conflicts with other children

OP posts:
alicet · 25/03/2008 19:25

Speaking as someone whose child has been the biter on a couple of occasions I think you can be reassured that they almost certainly ARE doing something about it. I was very distressed to hear that my ds1 had bitten another child (he did it to me a couple of times so I know it bloody hurts) but I was assured it was normal for some children to do this at this age as they are unable to voice their frustrations and he would grow out of it. When he had bitten he was put into 'time-out' as is done for all such behaviours.

I also don't know how you can expect it to never happen with 1-3 ratio - YABU about this.

It is upsetting but it is a fact of life. And although your dd is on the receiving end this time which I am sure is upsetting she may be the perpetrator next time. Maybe for your peace of mind ask the nursery what they are doing to try and prevent this (not unreasonable)

RubySlippers · 25/03/2008 19:30

i think this i a fairly common thing at nursery

DS was bitten 4 times at nursery and then was a biter

it was ALWAYS over a toy - at this age they cannot express themselves and impulsively bite or lash out - can literally happen in the blink of an eye

by all means, talk to the staff, but it may still happen and doesn't mean nursery aren't tackling it

Lulumama · 25/03/2008 19:31
Original poster
dizzydixies · 25/03/2008 19:32

I don't expect it NEVER to happen and am fully aware its normal behaviour in some children BUT I think by the 4th time of it happening in a short space of time, by the same child, they would have something in place or watch them both more closely when together so she doesn't get bitten and not imply that it was dd2's fault she was bitten.

dd2 can be a wee madame and regularly hits and pulls dd1's hair but she is not at an age where she is beginning to realise right from wrong and knows that hurting someone else is wrong. I've never been approached by the staff to say that she's done this to any other child, just squabbling over toys etc - will they even be saying to the other parents that this has been happening? I have no idea on that front and am not contesting that part

she's as blameless as the other child in this due to their age, I want to know am I being unreasonable to expect the staff, when there is meant to be a high ratio, to have something in place and be able to prevent this before it happens - even expect it and prempt it?

what if she was falling and hurting herself due to lack of supervision or playing with something and hurting herself - is it differnt because its another child thats responsbile

am new to this as it never happened to dd1 and was previously very happy with the care they both received at the nursery - I just want to find the best way to go about it and feel that something needs to be said, what that something is i just don't know

OP posts:
RubySlippers · 25/03/2008 19:35

they can't pre-empt it!

they don't know your DD the way you do, and so remove her from flashpoints and vice versa with the other child

it is horrible to see your child hurt tho'

RubySlippers · 25/03/2008 19:36
Lulumama · 25/03/2008 19:37

udner my name? not DH

Lulumama · 25/03/2008 19:37

udner my name? not DH