Toilet training before school

[jackass232]

I saw a piece on the news last night about how there's been a big rise in the number of children starting school not fully toilet trained. I think the figures were something like 13% of kids in any reception class are not fully trained and that teachers are on average spending 2.5 hours per day dealing with toileting accidents and issues.

Obviously this is quite shocking (I expected to see a MN post about it actually, sorry if I missed one) but I can sympathise as my ds started reception with issues surrounding pooing - mostly holding onto it, becoming constipated and having leaks. I remember always packing spare pants for him and I know the TA had to help him change a lot. This wasn't anything to do with laziness on my part. He was just hard to toilet train and continued with these issues for quite some years. The school was always lovey about it but I felt very embarrassed and upset on behalf of my son.

I feel the general narrative behind this story is that parents just can't be arsed to toilet train their kids and are happily sending them in and letting teachers deal with them. But that's not always the case. I know it's a big drain on schools but what's the answer? And why has there been such a rise?

I do think potty training is like all the other milestones in that some will be there before others.
We have started to introduce my 18 month old to the potty as he's been indicating when he needs his nappy changed and he will happily sit on it. Will probably wait a few more weeks to really go for it when it's a bit warmer but so far so good.
By contrast, his brother resisted the potty every step of the way, I actually think we traumatised him a bit the first time we attempted potty training around his 2nd birthday. He was in such distress, it was awful. Finally cracked it not long before his 4th birthday and certainly not through lack of trying.
Nearly a year later and he toilets independently, wiping and washing hands, the whole lot. This is a relief as DSD was 8 before she would wipe herself.

This is one of the reports.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/primary-school-children-toilet-covid-skills-teachers-b2503858.html

Waiting too long is a problem. If you'd started a year ago it would be much less stressful for the child. My children's nurseries were both very keen on getting my kids out of nappies as soon as they got to 2 which helped me realise they could do it... although only in nursery 2 days a week so it wasn't crucial.

I feel sorry for parents trying to toilet train these days when many couples both work long hours. I have seen footage of African women making a sound when their baby wees and then being able to say the same sound to encourage the child sitting on their potty to wee. It is my belief that kids like to be toilet trained before three if they are given half a chance.

All my kids were toilet trained the first Summer after they could walk. And they were out of night nappies the Summer after that.. except for one child who, at 31/2, needed to wear a beeper for two weeks at night. I chose Summer so I could get the extra toilet training washing dry.

Things in my favour..I was a stay at home Mum, I couldn't afford disposables, I was naturally patient and unfazed with the process, I had a large space near the toilet where the potty always sat. My own mother had given me the hints to train in warmer months and to just put the child into knickers and a shirt. (So that the wet sensation was immediate for the child.)
I could sort my time out to dedicate two weeks straight to toilet training each child during which we all stayed mostly at home.

Things that make it harder today are .. multiple carers .. over tired parent who act impatiently and, I think, sometimes frighten their child .. not staying home for two weeks straight .. smarter homes that parents are reluctant to have children wee and poo on ...children now spaced further apart so that each child stays a baby for longer... there is less incentive to get children out of disposable nappies unlike getting them out of cloth nappies which meant less washing... fewer grassy yards where kids can do a tree wee easily near their sandpit etc.

It's factually incorrect though. Lockdown didn't last 2 years. Nurseries were open apart from the first 3 months or so. There were periods where mixing socially was difficult but the rule of meeting outdoors or a maximum of 6 meant you could meet up with friends etc.

I think screens are more to blame than lockdown.

Yep- apparently I trained myself at 11 months when I started walking. Really hard with a sopping wet towelling square wrapped around your nether regions! I still have one of them.

I wonder if a contributing factor is in the past if they weren't toilet trained, they couldn't go to playgroup or nursery settings. Parents had to either be there to do toileting or make sure they were ready. It certainly wasn't a teacher job. Another good reason for failure to recruit teachers.

Or perhaps it's the fact that more couples BOTH work.

Many families cannot afford to have a stay-at-home-parent which makes potty training at a young age SO much harder when you're also relying on nursery to help.

Mine were 26 months, 32 months, and 44 months.

They all took about 3 days to master it as they were all ready. The 44 months was due to autism/ADHD and not liking the feel of sitting on plastic, nor being able to sit still for long so complete refusal earlier.

My best mate is potty training her daughter at 16 months but so far it has been 2 months or success and accidents. She is a SAHM though.

This.

@LittlePinkLampshade thanks. I really needed a good dose of judgement. Apologies for not living up to your parenting standards

Surely this is easily solved! Schools/teachers will not potty train. If a child isn't potty trained by the time they are due to start school (medical issues aside) they either don't start until they are ready, only come in very part time or they come to school in a nappy (and the parent comes in to change it). Parents working? Perhaps having to come into school would focus their minds!

Society and schools are enabling this lack of parenting. So far we've got teeth brushing, potty training and, in some cases providing all food. I'm expecting it to get worse under Labour.

Schools are for education. If teacher/ta has to change a nappy the whole class is missing out.

Myself and DH both work full time, we had to tackle it on bank holidays in 4 days.

And for those wailing 'but we both work' - why don't think it's someone else's responsibility to potty train your child? 🤔

What’s the best method to toilet train? When did you start ? What’s worked for you ?

My point is, no kid bar very severe handicap was not ready at 4- or even 3- right up to the availability of very comfortable disposable nappies. If you had to soak and store terry nappies in a smelly bucket, and then wash them in top loader and put through mangle, and dry on the line... or wherever in bad weather- and with a kid with permanent sore, red bottom - you would make jolly well sure potty training took place early and put the effort and time in.

How people can afford disposables anyhow?

Yeah thankfully schools are not allowed to discriminate against developmentally delayed children anymore
And according to the ERIC they shouldn't be asking parents to come into to change a child either as leaving then wet and or soiled can be tantamount to neglect.

Sorry, you lost me at 'handicap'.

Working is a complication, not an excuse. A week to train at 2 or 3 or 4 from work is really no different in terms of the impact on working ability.

I was a 70,s child ,yes were were all out of nappies, from a young age ,my sister however had an awful lot of accidents however even at primary school I remember kids having accidents ....

I don’t think anyone is saying that, merely giving a bit of a different perspective as to why it’s an issue these days more so than in the past.

I toilet trained DD at 18 months (first summer after she could walk properly) but both DH and I had to take a fair amount of time off work to crack it, not every working parent is able to do that - especially if there is a risk the child won’t learn at that age and need to do it later again anyway

Unfortunately 4 is fast becoming the new 2 when it comes to toilet training.

I used to Nanny from 1986 - 1997 and cared for boys and girls ranging from 6 months to 6. None of those wains were in nappies past 2 and a half or at the latest nearly 3 (and this was just one out of 11 children).

There are lots of reasons but imho the biggest one is time, the convenience of pull ups and people banging on about. ‘they’ll do it when they’re ready’. Why do we encourage our toddlers/under 3s to learn to feed themselves and all sorts of other things but toilet training is often considered of less importance.

Why is it that millions of two year olds were dry during the day 4/5 decades ago but now it’s normal for them not to be. Of course there are always accidents but there has been a huge change.

Pampers must be rubbing their hands in glee at the reluctance of todays parents to broach TT once the 2nd birthday has passed.

I’d say it’s more because if you took time off and it was a bit too early you’d need to do the same again further down the line.

I toilet trained at 18 months but both DH and I could take lots of time off work and didn’t need to worry about the what ifs

Firstly, if possible use reusable nappies. Kids start to realise very young when they are wet and they don’t like it! Secondly, as much bare bum time as possible from when they’re born. People on these threads will always mention their kids who didn’t like to pee or poo if not in a nappy. But if they’re used to being bare bum then that is just not an issue. Thirdly, have potties handy and encourage sitting on them as soon as they can sit. Get very excited about any wees or poos in the potty. Fourthly, always let them see you go to the loo, talk about it/sign about it with them, read books about it with them. All of the above normalises toileting. Obviously you can only do it at evenings/weekends/holidays if both parents working but that’s fine. Fifthly, at some point between 18-24 months just take the nappies away. Believe that they can do it, be patient and calm, don’t second guess yourself or your child, don’t stress about accidents. We didn’t use rewards as such but we did have some special favourite ‘toilet’ books that we only read on the loo/potty.

My late mother had five children who were all toilet trained by around 18 months. This was in the days of terry nappies, and she used to say in her later years that the popularity of disposable nappies were responsible for children being trained so late. If busy mothers had to steep, boil, wash and hang out tons of terry nappies they would be training their children much, much sooner. Now, I'm not ignoring where children may have some additional needs, but where those additional needs don't exist, it's just ridiculous that children are going to school in nappies. The poor teachers!