Toilet training before school

[jackass232]

I saw a piece on the news last night about how there's been a big rise in the number of children starting school not fully toilet trained. I think the figures were something like 13% of kids in any reception class are not fully trained and that teachers are on average spending 2.5 hours per day dealing with toileting accidents and issues.

Obviously this is quite shocking (I expected to see a MN post about it actually, sorry if I missed one) but I can sympathise as my ds started reception with issues surrounding pooing - mostly holding onto it, becoming constipated and having leaks. I remember always packing spare pants for him and I know the TA had to help him change a lot. This wasn't anything to do with laziness on my part. He was just hard to toilet train and continued with these issues for quite some years. The school was always lovey about it but I felt very embarrassed and upset on behalf of my son.

I feel the general narrative behind this story is that parents just can't be arsed to toilet train their kids and are happily sending them in and letting teachers deal with them. But that's not always the case. I know it's a big drain on schools but what's the answer? And why has there been such a rise?

I've got 3 - first trained at 2.5 in one week. Second wanted to train at 18 months - went with it - took nearly 2.5 years to be reliable (and still needs reminding to go now at nearly 6). Third refused REFUSED to even contemplate it until just before she turned three then was overnight.

So my summary - all children are different. Just because they could be trained at 18 months doesn't mean they all will, particularly if you have a stubborn one. Yes some parents are lazy but most of us are just trying to do our best and would hope that other parents recognise that

Well it's either a year of extra nappies or a year of lots of accidents ,take your pick.
But in reality it doesn't matter.

No those kids were not allowed in school.

I agree re the environmental impact.

It also sits really uneasily with me for a child to be sat in their own excrement and urine when they’re capable of using the toilet. Its degrading. Whether or not there’s a development impact I don’t know - but it feels like a form of wilful neglect from a parent.

Both my children have to be dry to start preschool at the schools setting, I think the deadline is helpful. It is only children with genuine additional needs who are not trained.

I reckon it's a combination. If your child is in nursery and their peers are not being toilet trained, then this may impact. My youngest was a see it do it thoe of child.

I do believe that we are seeing and diagnosing ND, SEN and physical development delay , more research is needed into the delay of the hormones that impact continence.

I do believe there are a tiny amount of parents outside of the above who may be unsure and nervous to start the process. I know if a few mother's and father's who are waiting for a time to take leave to start the training.

But the accidents don’t last a year? And you’re only delaying the accident stage. My eldest was much harder to train. My youngest rarely has accidents and hasn’t since we started.

From my experience (DC now 18&23 so a lifetime ago!)
It's partly down to reusable versus disposables.
DD1 we used reusables 100% of the time and when she was wet she knew she was wet!
DD2 we started with reusables but the practicalities meant we reverted to disposables.
DD2 was reliably toilet trained around her 3rd birthday as opposed to DD1 before her second birthday.
It was far too easy (and lazy) to use pull-ups.
In that's far and distant past pull ups were advertised as 'grown up' pants.
Now they're seen as a nappy.

Do definitely agree with PP about working parents too. I was lucky enough to be at home full time to potty train.

Probably my least favourite part of pre school parenting.
Can't imagine having to do it with a full time job

I remember my absolute fury and humiliation when I was almost 5, and we were staying in an awkward foreign apartment. My mum put me back in nappies overnight in case of accidents, and the only available nappies were absolutely tiny on me. I remember the righteous indignation of showing that my nappy was still clean every morning!

It would be so easy to get overnight nappies for a five year old now.

Not really a three and a half year old often has much better understanding then a two and a half year old so can often be much quicker to train ( yes I'm sure there will be lots of super duper mumsnetters whose two year old cracked it in a couple of days )

We had autistic kids in my school. 2 in my class and one in my cousins class. Probably others too who I didn't know. Exceptions were made for them because they couldn't help it, they were changed behind the bookcase and helped with their work and eating lunch etc.

How on earth would that be a factor? I assume the number of individuals who are neuro divergent is no different, it is just more recognised and there is an increase in diagnoses.

When my eldest started school in 2002 parents were told to ensue they provided a change of clothes in case of accidents so it wasn't unusual then either. Two was the age to start toilet training then.

I have 2 friends one who teaches reception at a private school and the other is a TA at a state first school.

The TA at the state school says that more and more children are starting school without being toilet trained. So much so in fact that they’ve taken on an extra member of staff because of the disruption it causes.

The reception teacher at the private school says they have never had a single pupil start there who wasn’t fully toilet trained.

The only difference between the 2 sets of children at 4 years of age is the parents.

Exactly this.
Where I live almost all children go to preschool at 3, a proportion are still 2 . All of them apart from some children with evident SEN are toilet trained.

They know when their kids are going to start so toilet train them at the appropriate time.

Which has got absolutely nothing to do with starting school in nappies
Some kids bedwet upto five and beyond ,that's always been the case

Well the private school are not obliged to.take children with development delay, the state school is .

Twenty years ago many pre schools insisted on potty trained kids.

So if you wanted your kid to go to pre school you worked bloody hard on potty training them so they could go to pre-school.

In practice they did have accidents, and as many went five mornings a week the easier way out was to put them on the potty just before going to pre school and hoping.

Mine started pre school at 2.5 and weren't really reliably dry in the day until 3,

Preschools and nurseries now are not permitted to have this rule, as it is discriminatory against disabled kids.

This is absolutely correct, but I wouldn't have potty trained so early unless they had that rule as frankly it was hard work, so I can completely see why parents now leave it later.

That inevitably means that fewer kids will be reliably dry by reception.

There’s absolutely zero evidence that it’s harder to train a 2.5 yo than a 3.5 yo. The environmental impact of nappies is enormous. A few extra clothes in the wash is not remotely equivalent to a year’s worth of disposable nappies. If you use reusable then that’s a lot more washing than wet or soiled clothes (I know, I used reusable for all 3 of my kids).

For NT kids there is no reason whatsoever not to train at 18-24 months except this totally unproven narrative that they aren’t ready. Children’s bladders and bowels haven’t changed that much in the past 30 years.

I've looked at the report and, of the things parents were asked if they were wholly responsible for, toilet training got the biggest yes response by far.

I also have sympathy that if you have childcare in place you are anticipating that they might support/take some responsibility for training too. My sons nursery did help. I did most at home by taking leave, but they assisted. I'd expect a nanny to support too.

I’m sure there’s a degree of truth here but also suspect a private school has less children with SEN, especially those who later end up in special schools or who need a special school but there isn’t the provision. So state vs private is likely a poor comparison.

Because again which people are ignoring this is the fourth time I have pointed it out now before the 2010 equality act many children were not allowed to start school in nappies which discriminated against disabled and or developmentally delayed children ,thankfully schools are not allowed to discriminated now

I'd imagine a 3 year old would be more stubborn and know their own mind than 2 year olds. I can imagine it being quicker with one that's onboard with the idea but a nightmare with one that doesn't want to.

Nobody has ignored it - I would say we just don’t agree that 13% accounts for just additional needs.

Not necessarily.

• You get a lower proportion of SEN children in private schools
• parents who can afford private schools can afford nanny's or better quality nurseries with higher staff to child ratios which makes toilet training easier when both parents are working
• the private school may just refuse non toilet trained children, state schools can't

Ridiculous comparison - the private school is probably taking a negligible amount of the children with SEND (diagnosed of otherwise) or children with home circumstances involving poor parenting, poverty, severe disability or mental health issues, homelessness, poor/no preschool experience, or just generally chaotic or difficult backgrounds. Of course they don’t have a single pupil who’s not toilet trained, they likely simply won’t accept them, and in any case they’ve filtered out most of the factors involved, only some of which are within parents control.

Not "lazy " parenting.
Parenting in a time where toddlers are less likely to be cared for at home in a family setting or by people who have the time to be consistent for a few weeks while they learn.
Parenting in a time where child centred is pushed as the way to do things, therefore a number of very involved and loving parents feel that "toilet training" is sort of a bodily autonomy and they will not initiate it unless seeing sighs that this is what the child wishes.

Acknowledging that any aspect of society can have both positive and negative impacts is important and freeing in the sense that you can only do your best in the society in which you live. It's an observation rather than blame. One of the consequences is being pointed out by teachers, that's all. You don't have to feel guilty about anything.