To think raising school absenteeism fines won’t help much.

[Boomer55]

Fines for parents taking children out of school without permission will rise across England from September.
The minimum fine will increase from £60 to £80 per parent as part of a government drive to return attendance to pre-pandemic levels.
One school told BBC News one out of every three of its pupils absent without permission had been on a family holiday during term time.
A head teachers' union said fines were needed to avoid "chaos" in schools.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-68420275

Simply not talking about the same thing I am talking about. Law makers and governments can regulate to help with any business area under their jurisdiction or they can be left to hike prices more and more as they have been. Why am I supposed to say what they might do? You already have a lay persons overview.

The bit of the whole topic that is harder to understand is why parents think they are entitled to break the rules. Yes, prices are a pita but dealing with it by breaking the rules and blaming the schools for taking sanctions is actually anti democratic

You're supposed to say what they might do because you suggested the idea, claimed we needed to get over the notion that we couldn't do it, said it couldn't hurt to try, that it was defeatist not to and that people who have pointed out the difficulties to you are espousing an ultra right wing stance. You are of course free not to back up any of your claims and you're clearly not going to because they're ridiculous but that does mean it will be clear that you can't.

As for democracy, what manifesto was this in? I'm not interested in people's moral takes on whether parents should take their DC out of school, but I do want to hear more about this.

There’s plenty things they could do, but I am not presuming to supply detail. It’s an area to be addressed by government.

The other point is not about morals. Rule breaking is never the way to deal with this. If you can’t link that to democracy, God help us.

Enough now, I must leave this place where we are happy to be shafted by business but not penalised for bunking off school

It appears that we're back to the concept of trying to regulate holiday pricing again. Please do tell us what you suggest and how it would protect us. You haven't so far.

Its almost like there is no sensible or possible regulation.

England’s government would have no jurisdiction to tell anyone in a different country how they should price their villa/hotel/apartment. If they tried to cap English holiday providers, the providers would either put up the prices the rest of the year or fold completely.

Lots of comments about holidays being cheaper termtime - true.
But am interested how people then cover school holidays for childcare? School holidays are 14 weeks a year. Annual leave is 5 weeks a year on average. So even if a couple takes it seperate then thats 10 weeks a year
If then take leave during termtime, need to pay for playschemes - where I am thats at least £50 for a full 8am-6pm day per child - so £500 a week for 2 children. If both parents go on holidays thats 2 less weeks covered/2 more weeks childcare at £1000 - so actually doesn't make termtime holidays much cheaper really

Right, so you know enough to confidently state over multiple posts that there are loads of things we could do that would actually make a difference, but not enough to give even a vague hint as to what they are. That sort of bullshitting always speaks for itself.

There’s plenty things they could do

Really? Ok, then.

Name 5 things they could do.

I think a lot of it is because people aren't necessarily in 2 x FT working households and using paid holiday childcare. There will be some households in the position you set out here. But lots of others will have at least one of DC at school who are too old to need holiday childcare, a SAHP, family help, a parent working part time or flexibly or a parent who's a carer to a disabled DC and doesn't work.

You have nailed it with one word 'entitled'
'Entitled to have a holiday' 'entitled to take children out of school' but also 'entitled to an education for their child' 'entitled to moan when teachers strike' and 'entitled to their school not closing as the teachers fancy a cheap break too'. Just imagine if these parents rocked up to school to a sign saying 'sorry, you lot clearly don't respect us enough to send your child in so we are not coming in either' - there would be uproar!

A holiday is lovely but not a human right. People talk about 'quality family time' that can just as easily be at home. We dont have to fly 2000 miles to enjoy spending time with our children.

Access to education is a child's human right. And before I get shot down,I know that many many children don't have access to appropriate educational placements and are missing school due long wait list for special schools, lack of funding, poor mental health support. It's not these ones I am referring to, its the children who are happy and needs met in school but taken out of school multiple times a year in termtime to go to Costa del Brit

Yes and no
If a parent is home educating, then they are likely not working. That could mean they are claiming benefits. But also not paying tax, maybe left a job in a shortage profession like nursing, and then have to employ expensive agency staff.
So home education may be more expensive on public purse

You can't just stay unemployed to be home educating! You have to be actively looking for work or you might be signed off sick in which case it makes no odds whether you home educate or not in terms of the impact on taxation income for the government

There's a lot of unnecessary hyperbole in your post @Bushmillsbabe. The entitlement and the flying thousands of miles and the Costa del rubbish and the multiple holidays.

None of that applies to our family for eg.

I believe it's entirely possible for a school to use it's discretion to gauge weather a few days off days off once a year for a family holiday (which would otherwise be un-affordable) is a reasonable scenario. To take into account the child's attendance level and any other family factors such as SEN. Or when the piss is being taken. Or when a family needs support rather than arbitrary fines.

It's how it used to work.

Where is the fine money going anyway? It's not being ploughed back into the school i bet.

It's interesting how often snobbery about the Costas and the like comes up in discussions about term time holidays, particularly from people who clearly imagine themselves to be making some kind of moral point.

Well youare obligated to answer the door. Imagine if the whole fami,y aredown with notrovirus and someone from school rocks up. Just what you need

Agreed.

It may not apply to your family, but it does apply to some I know

I don't think schools are allowed to use their discretion, they are not legally allowed to authorise termtime holidays I was told
But I agree they should be able to - we did take our girls (both 100% attendance) out of school for a few days to attend a wedding abroad of a close family member, where wedding had been brought forward from the school holidays due to their father being terminally ill. My husband was an usher, my girls were flowergirls, we were going! All explained to school but still received a very snotty letter from 1 of the girls headteacher telling us off and threatening us with a fine. The other headteacher was much more pleasant but still couldn't authorise.
A headteacher friend says when she could authorise she had parents sending threats etc to her if she didn't so is glad she can't. But it is a shame that they can't use discretion in exceptional circumstances

And the fine amount probably barely covers admin costs of administering the fines, so yes the schools won't be seeing the money

Nobody is holding anyone to ransom, a holiday is a luxury and it's fine that's it's priced as such.

I'm not as familiar with the UK holiday market as I am overseas but assuming £1k per week in high season that's maybe 12-13 weeks a year to make enough profit to see a company through the many weeks of low or zero occupancy.

You can’t answer the simple question asked. You suggested regulation but can’t even make a vague suggestion of how it would work in practice. It’s been painful to read!

There are many ways to do this and all industries benefit from regulation. Experts devise the best ways. I’m not one but I do know but recognise something needs doing and can be done. What that is, is not my specialism to debate.

This is discussion is painful to me because it’s really sad that some on this thread are more worried about those taking big profits having to be subject to scrutiny and regulation. Some here would rather be fleeced by businesses and break schooling regulations. If that’s not a right wing position that’s part of what got us into this colossal mess since 2010, what in bleep is it?

All clever words and noble principles. And of course everybody would like cheaper holidays.

But how can the UK unilaterally tell airlines that they can’t charge x for flights or a hotel in Greece that it can’t charge y for a stay? I am no economist or business person but surely all that would happen if they did that is that tourism abroad would stop trying to attract UK tourists and seek a market elsewhere. How would you address this?

So your proposal is that the UK ring up the Greek (or wherever), tourist board and say what?

"Excuse me but would you mind awfully lowering your prices for UK visitors in your very busy Summer season? We don't mind what you charge other countries but if you could just do us that favour we'd be terribly grateful"

What do you suppose the answer would be? It would probably translate into 2 words..."fuck" and "off".

Experts devise the best ways. I’m not one but…

Well, quite.

Other countries applying their own laws instead of ours is right wing, it would seem.

What’s the point of that? Surely you’d just say you had to work so you left your kid with their grandparents for childcare while they were ill.

Why are they lumping sick children in with holidaymakers? My son has had three days off he has diarrhea ffs I cannot send him in Dr's won't want to see him either its obvious we arnt on holiday because my younger child is still going to school but ffs his attendance is poor due to ill health if it was holiday related I would pay a fine