To think raising school absenteeism fines won’t help much.

[Boomer55]

Fines for parents taking children out of school without permission will rise across England from September.
The minimum fine will increase from £60 to £80 per parent as part of a government drive to return attendance to pre-pandemic levels.
One school told BBC News one out of every three of its pupils absent without permission had been on a family holiday during term time.
A head teachers' union said fines were needed to avoid "chaos" in schools.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-68420275

These fines are the dumbest policy ever. Let’s force kids to school even if unwell so that everyone else gets sick so that we show attendance.

In any case, plenty of us have passports in the plural.

In terms of holiday absence, I wonder if the fines are completely counterproductive.

Previously, the focus of whether to take a term time holiday revolved around the children and whether they would miss too much school. Now the focus is on the cost effectiveness.

There is a study that looked into parents picking children up late from nursery. This actually increased when they introduced charges because parents felt they were paying for the privilege. https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/

Serial offenders should end up in court and the options for non-attendance should include parents losing their passport for a period of time.

In which case they'll just holiday in the UK....no passport needed.

Nope I was fined last year for taking my SEN child out of school for a holiday. A child who is known not to be able to cope with crowds and lots or noise. My argument is that my autistic children are as entitled to a holiday as anyone else and its a "reasonable adjustment" that they go in term time.

Yep. Or Ireland even, no passport needed for the ferry!

Remember there is discretion available in exceptional circumstances eg my friends went on a "make a wish" type trip in term time and she had to send a letter from the charity and the referral from social services (one of their children has profound disabilities and requires round the clock care by a carer trained in tracki care) the other schools were absolutely fine, but it wasn't a normal holiday, they can't take them really as need oxygen, hoists etc (they flew by private jet to Orlando, 2 carers paid for for the week, was absolutely amazing apparently, even got a fully paid for night out just the two of them organised by the charity and a local £££ restaurant

The issue wrt SN term time holidays is that it's discretionary. SN parents in this position always have the possibility of a fine hanging over them. There's scope for some LAs to be utterly unreasonable, postcode lottery etc. That's a problem.

Regulation of the holiday companies is what is needed. Take temptation away.

Personally, I think going on holiday in school time is like bunking off work. People are lucky that the sanctions are so lenient.

Regulation of the holiday companies is what is needed.

As has been pointed out-this will not be happening. They are businesses and can do what they want.

I don't see how it would be workable anyway, not least because people living in the UK don't necessarily book with companies subject to UK regulations for their holidays. If you book travel and accommodation separately, as a significant number of people do, how is the British government going to stop people and companies elsewhere from charging more for their properties when they know it's school holidays?

People are so privileged on here. The fines aren't to target rich people taking their kids on holiday 🤦🏼‍♀️

I don't know about rich, but the government reckon 89% of fines are issued for unauthorised holidays.

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/02/29/fines-for-parents-for-taking-children-out-of-school-what-you-need-to-know/

I don't trust them myself, but it's no great surprise that people pick up on the messaging they're putting out.

That’s why we need to get over the notion that we can’t regulate businesses. We should not crave a society where greed is the lead.

But how does this fit with the fact that lots of holidays are taken in other societies who won't be subject to UK legislation? Even if we think we could in theory prevent eg airlines and companies doing packages from charging more in school holidays, that still leaves a huge amount of room for people to be charged more. Let's say you get your price controlled flight out of the UK, or you drive yourself, then what? I just can't see how people think this is going to work.

I didn't think it was meant to help, as such.

Just stick roughly in line with inflation so the effect remains much the same

The whole system needs complete reform.

I believe that the reason for the uptick in persistent absences since the pandemic is for several reasons.

Firstly, the fact that the government closed the schools to most children during the pandemic and then continued for ages with all the silly "bubble" stuff that made no sense, broke the contract between schools and families and undermined the importance of regular school attendance for a number of people. Before anyone shoots me down, I am not saying they were right or wrong to close schools initially, or that it's OK for parents not to take attendance seriously. I just think it has caused a shift in attitudes for some people in recent years.

Secondly, the Tories have overseen the wholesale destruction of mental health and SEND services, as well as the NHS as a whole. This has clearly had a massive impact on the wellbeing of millions of people, some of them school kids. Absenteeism or absence due to persistent illness is one of the ways that this manifests.

Thirdly, people in almost every income bracket are feeling the effects of the COL crisis. Taking the kids out of school for many families is the difference between having holidays or not. It's not just about saving £100 nowadays. They simply can't afford to go away in the school holidays. It's beyond unreasonable and unrealistic to expect families to never experience family holidays together. School is important but it's not the only important thing. Life is important. Family time is important. Enrichment is important. Cultural experiences are important. Time away from the daily grind is important.

I think the whole school system (and public services in general) is unfit for purpose and needs urgent and radical reform. The curriculum is outdated. SEND children are not adequately supported and able to reach their potential. Resources are stretched beyond belief. The issue of families not being allowed the flexibility to take affordable holidays is really the least of it.

It's much easier for the Tories to punish and blame children and their parents than it is to actually analyse the numerous reasons why this situation is occuring and address the root causes, for which the blame lies squarely at their feet. Basically it's just more DARVO from the government. Kids deserve an education and the government is not fulfilling it's obligations to make education and healthcare accessible to all.

Some regulation would not go amiss.

Why do families rail against schools trying to get them to abide by the rules but think companies should be allowed to do what they like?

You've yet to explain what use regulation would actually be. If you could make a case, that might be different.

Nobody's 'shoulds' are of any importance here anyway, it's plain fact that a great many holidays are taken in places where the UK wouldn't be in a position to tell accommodation providers what they can charge. It doesn't matter how you or I might personally feel about that. Whereas we very much can have a society where we don't have school attendance fines. Like Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to manage.

We can at least try. Saying you can’t cover everything/legislate everyone so you won’t bother doing anything is defeatist.

The other thing is to simply stop thinking that taking your kids out of school in term time is acceptable. It’s not different from bunking off work.

What sort of legislations against holiday companies do you think would work? Both in England and across the globe?

The UK can regulate business that is located in the UK - because it needs to be as it is selling a physical product. If the government brought in price capping on holiday companies, every single one of the handful of remaining UK-based holiday companies would re-locate abroad overnight.

So again, please explain how we could try and what impact this would have. I'm ready to hear a case, but nobody ever makes one.

Another alternative is that we could succeed in not being a society that fines parents for children missing school. It's a terrible policy, has failed in improving attendance, damages relationships between parents and schools and blames parents of SN kids for systemic failures.

Lastly, taking children out of school in term time will only be like bunking off work when DC are paid a wage to be at school and accrue employment rights for being there too.

Good little money earner for the government, no wonder they increased the fines!

All things are regulated and have rules. Adjust rules for business where possible. It can’t hurt to try even if it isn’t possible to reach every price hiker or mode of transport.

In schools there are rules but so many are happy to break them to save money. The second anyone dares to say on here that maybe temptations to pull your kids out of school should be reined in posters reject that 🤷

Bushiness can’t be the problem, it must be schools. I think not