To be shocked by this woman’s assumption

[Reluctantcareprovider]

I go to a regular monthly hobby group. One women who attends is in a wheelchair -though she has some limited mobility she can use sticks for

a few times myself or others have helped push her wheelchair to bathroom at breaks. Wheeled in and left her to it. Popped back and knocked on door when she was ready to come out

no problems - happy to help. Most meeting are just 2 hours so she doesn’t need lol, it is the more irregular whole day meetings that I’ve pushed her chair.

at latest meeting she now has electric self drive chair, but she asked for help with “the bathroom again”. Sure, no issues , nothing else explained . I was a bit surprised given she has new chair but though oh well, it’s a tight squeeze into disabled loo.

got into bathroom, about to leave her, and then had her tell me , no I couldn’t leave her and that I now needed to help her onto the toilet and started to explain how to lift her skirt, pull down pants and remove an incontinence pad form around her bottom- I was stunned. I said I wasn’t prepared for that, didn’t know what to do and was very uncomfortable with it. She said it was simple, just needed “a bit of help” and proceeded to tell me what to do.

in the dithering (in fairness on my part) she then had an “accident” on the floor over her undies .

I was left to remove wet undies, pick them up annd bag them and used pads up from pool of urine on floor , and then to help get her into new clean undies and pad.

I also have a very bad back myself which means bending and lifting is painful. And she’s not a small woman

I was feeling sick (smell of urine) and felt so very uncomfortable. I have never ever done this for anyone and even when my own dad was having accidents in care home (dementia) I’d leave to staff who knew how to hold him, lift him safely and change him without further accidents.

when I said after I was not comfortable with what was happening, she dismissed it really, said “I thought you knew and agreed “! Of course I didn’t know her condition had deteriorated so she couldn’t manage toileting herself. She never once told me that when she asked if I could help her. I had no reason to suppose at all she needed more than help with doors etc.

I am appalled she assumed I would carry out such an intimate carer role for her. I am not unreasonably sqeemish but this really turned my stomach and embarrassed me seeing her completely naked waste down.

Her husband drops her off. He left her. Didn’t come back at all during day to help. Nor did she come with another carer . Seems like just because I’ve helped her a couple of times with wheeling her about in old chair , that she ambused me into doing this way more intimate and personal care for her.

I was too shocked and guilty to just walk away and leave her. Clearly she needed the loo. She was aware I wasn’t happy and embarrassed as I told her, but she made no apology in assuming I’d do this for her.

AIBU to say she was totally unreasonable to dump (sorry no pun intended) on me like this, without being explicit about her needs . Surely she should have spoken to someone in group BEFORE attending a whole day session. when her needs changed to agree how they would be managed, or got her husband to come back at lunchtime.

there are other people in group who have known her for years, and much closer- one lady who runs the group has known her for 15 years or more. I’ve only been attending group for 2 years. I barely ever talk to her as her interests in this hobby are slightly different than mine and I go with a different group of friends. i just helped in past because I was sitting near her and the door on that occasion. She seems to have now latched on to me

AIBU to also raise it with chairwomen - say that this lady needs to discuss a better approach to her care if she continues to attend all day events? I know it’s personal but she said “I thought you knew” to me which leads me to think others may know and I am a complete mug.

im actually quite angry she just assumed I would be her carer for this intimate care, without my explicit consent.

AIBU to feel this way? AIBU to say no in future? AIBU to raise it with the chairwomen and say the lady needs to come with willing carers to perform these tasks?

I have to take their entire weight to twist on my back before they fall.

I was trained not to do that, on the grounds that they will likely still be hurt, and I will be too. I was told at most to help break the fall, e.g. prevent head hitting the ground, but not to try to catch them. Not saying either way is 'right' it's just interesting to note different approaches.

She doesn’t have ”her” PA that I’m aware of- hence why we’re in this situation. Her husband brings her…he’s pretty elderly and I imagine it wouldn’t be easy for him to help her with her need’s either

I think you do need to raise it with the chair otherwise someone else will be roped in next time.
The chair needs to make it clear that members can not be asked to help her with intimate care due to lack of training and equipment. The chair needs to ask the lady what reasonable adjustments she needs to attend which in all likelihood is for the lady to arrange a carer to either attend the whole session or just pop in.

Because I did say in my post , politely “ she’s not a small women” !🤦‍♀️

….she is considerably overweight, but understandable if you have limited mobility and of more mature years ( I’d say she’s around 70 ish). I’m overweight myself but considerably younger- maybe she thought I’m more “ robust” to support her weight than the slim women attending?

If she needs that level of personal care she needs a carer to attend with her,simple as. As has been pointed out already she's more than likely in receipt of benefit to pay for this so her comandeering you to carry out this most personal of duties is absolutely unacceptable. The nerve of some people is off the scale. I would have no qualms whatsoever in future of giving her a very firm 'NO'

@Reluctantcareprovider
As per all previous posters, this is outrageous behaviour. For me it also feels a little abusive on her part. "Coercing" (as that's what I think she's done) someone into giving you intimate physical care doesn't sit well with me at all. If it were a disabled man asking a woman to do this it would all feel very much more manipulative, inappropriate and abusive and I'm not sure this is different just because she's a woman.

I hate to say this, but I strongly feel there may be a little something else going on here. And I would absolutely be raising this with the group leader, so they can attempt to find out what this is.

Most people, disabled or not, have, or greatly desire, dignity. As disabled members have posted here, this is not appropriate. The fact that she needs help is not undignified in any way. The fact that she is putting this on group members, is, and wholly inappropriate.

Are they struggling to access suitable carers would be my first concern, to rule out. If this is not the issue, is it possible this woman is kind of getting off on this? I don't mean in a sexual way. I mean, is she getting off on putting relative strangers in uncomfortable positions, or having them perform these quite intense acts of services for her?

I'm sorry you were put in this position OP. You shouldn't have to tell someone no to this in the first place, it's not appropriate. I can understand someone asking in an emergency - but she is expecting others to take on an intimate caring role and needs to know this isn't appropriate.

I don't know what I would have done. I do know that I have an extremely weak stomach and having to touch/deal with her incontinence pad would have had me visibly heaving. Just an all around bizarre situation.

I'm also getting the feeling there is some abuse going on here. Something isn't sitting right about this.

As ii said earlier, this is why I was so shocked! It all felt “off”
my only experience with people who need help toiletting is my poor dad, who is in care home aged 87 and with dementia and I have never got involved in his toiletting either…I would be appalled to frankly to have to give him intimate care, given he’s a man and I don’t have a touchy-feely relationship with him, I have never been ven sen his bare chest or legs 🫣.

she has a strong personality but does come across as a bit “ out of touch with reality” in certain situations around stuff like events we might do, a bit naive if you like. Not a significant issue, but I hink it’s more likely she just didn’t think of ramifications of this, perhaps it’s caught her by surprise very recently she can’t now manage? Maybe she was a nudist in previous time 🤷🏼‍♀️😵‍💫and just lacks normal inhibitions that I have ( and apparently most people here). I was left feeling like I was being overtly sensitive by her responses to my concerns. “ what’s all fuss about” type thing though she didn’t say that explicitly.

Maybe she was embarrassed and her coping mechanism is making you feel like the problem for making a fuss.

YANBU. And it's a huge credit to you that you did just stay and help her out, rather than walk away.

She needs to make proper arrangements.

These last two paragraphs.
A discrete, respectful word with the lady herself & husband before he departs next time.

Reading back my own post above, just to clarify myself, I meant rather than emailing the Chairperson, speak to her (the chair) directly, and log it in writing afterwards as your safeguard against any comments by the wheelchair bound lady.

I might had had too many "her" in the original post and caused confusion. The chairperson should know to protect yourself and others.

Just a small reminder that "wheelchair bound" is considered ableist.

www.oed.com/dictionary/wheelchair-bound_adj?tl=true

Thank you for this….

Yes, that did occur to me too

I don’t want to get involved in conversation with her really, and certainly not her husband who’ve I never spoken to and don’t know at all.

i think talking directly has potential to upset us both or cause rewlly conflict or arguments. On the day, afterwords, I was polite but was still feeling unsure of why I had had the response I did. Now I’ve chance to reflect and listen to overwhelming comments here around safeguarding, injury, hygiene and not being unreasonable, I actually feel a bit angry, so I think there isn’t real risk a direct conversation will descend into a fairly unpleasant encounter. I also don’t want to spoil my enjoyment of next meeting with this hanging over me and of having to discuss the whole thing again with her.

I’ve sent an email to chair this morning citing the reasons given in one of the earliest responses around the reasons it is inappropriate to even ask for this level of help from group members even if they did happen to be trained carers (e.g. lifting, lack of PPE, vulnerable adult with no witness etc). I have asked chair if she or someone on committee were aware and had agreed? And then asked if she would discuss the issue with the lady in factual way as to why it was not appropriate to come without a carer, or until she has her care regime in place if she has suddenly got worse and hasn’t yet been able to put things in place. I also suggested chair she reinforces that we would absolutely not charge a carer to attend, or even join in activities.

I’ll wait on response.

Thanks everyone for your input. Usually AIBU is a bit of a pile on so the fact there is overwhelming consensus I was not BU, has been extremely helpful to be able to decide the way to proceed.

I am now wiser and more informed and shan’t get myself into a situation like that again. I have the confidence to know that my instincts that it was not right, were right, and it wasn’t right 😵‍💫

I do feel for the women involved, it is horrible to be in her situation . But I think many of us have risk of ending up like I did, by being sucked into something without full consent just by trying to be helpful or kind.

Please do update us what happens in the next session, OP.

I’ve had email response from chair. She is going to have conversation. I won’t post about what she said in response as could be outing and not right to post about 3rd party conversations. But she did support that it was unreasonable and needed to be addressed.
i really don’t anticipate anything will happen in next meeting! it’s being addressed. Women in question already knows I wasn’t happy and it would be very strange of her to ask me again anyway in light of that. It’s now a case of least said, soonest mended.
I will intervene quietly only if I get wind of her asking someone else for “help” to make point to any other “kind” soul she’s coercing around the risks and safeguarding, but I really think the chair will now head this offer happening again by what she’s said to me.

This an an utterly disgusting thing to say. Blaming disabled people for the prejudice shown to them.

What are you supposed to use instead?

Yanbu. It's not safe for you or her in this situation.

Wheelchair user.