To be shocked by this woman’s assumption

[Reluctantcareprovider]

I go to a regular monthly hobby group. One women who attends is in a wheelchair -though she has some limited mobility she can use sticks for

a few times myself or others have helped push her wheelchair to bathroom at breaks. Wheeled in and left her to it. Popped back and knocked on door when she was ready to come out

no problems - happy to help. Most meeting are just 2 hours so she doesn’t need lol, it is the more irregular whole day meetings that I’ve pushed her chair.

at latest meeting she now has electric self drive chair, but she asked for help with “the bathroom again”. Sure, no issues , nothing else explained . I was a bit surprised given she has new chair but though oh well, it’s a tight squeeze into disabled loo.

got into bathroom, about to leave her, and then had her tell me , no I couldn’t leave her and that I now needed to help her onto the toilet and started to explain how to lift her skirt, pull down pants and remove an incontinence pad form around her bottom- I was stunned. I said I wasn’t prepared for that, didn’t know what to do and was very uncomfortable with it. She said it was simple, just needed “a bit of help” and proceeded to tell me what to do.

in the dithering (in fairness on my part) she then had an “accident” on the floor over her undies .

I was left to remove wet undies, pick them up annd bag them and used pads up from pool of urine on floor , and then to help get her into new clean undies and pad.

I also have a very bad back myself which means bending and lifting is painful. And she’s not a small woman

I was feeling sick (smell of urine) and felt so very uncomfortable. I have never ever done this for anyone and even when my own dad was having accidents in care home (dementia) I’d leave to staff who knew how to hold him, lift him safely and change him without further accidents.

when I said after I was not comfortable with what was happening, she dismissed it really, said “I thought you knew and agreed “! Of course I didn’t know her condition had deteriorated so she couldn’t manage toileting herself. She never once told me that when she asked if I could help her. I had no reason to suppose at all she needed more than help with doors etc.

I am appalled she assumed I would carry out such an intimate carer role for her. I am not unreasonably sqeemish but this really turned my stomach and embarrassed me seeing her completely naked waste down.

Her husband drops her off. He left her. Didn’t come back at all during day to help. Nor did she come with another carer . Seems like just because I’ve helped her a couple of times with wheeling her about in old chair , that she ambused me into doing this way more intimate and personal care for her.

I was too shocked and guilty to just walk away and leave her. Clearly she needed the loo. She was aware I wasn’t happy and embarrassed as I told her, but she made no apology in assuming I’d do this for her.

AIBU to say she was totally unreasonable to dump (sorry no pun intended) on me like this, without being explicit about her needs . Surely she should have spoken to someone in group BEFORE attending a whole day session. when her needs changed to agree how they would be managed, or got her husband to come back at lunchtime.

there are other people in group who have known her for years, and much closer- one lady who runs the group has known her for 15 years or more. I’ve only been attending group for 2 years. I barely ever talk to her as her interests in this hobby are slightly different than mine and I go with a different group of friends. i just helped in past because I was sitting near her and the door on that occasion. She seems to have now latched on to me

AIBU to also raise it with chairwomen - say that this lady needs to discuss a better approach to her care if she continues to attend all day events? I know it’s personal but she said “I thought you knew” to me which leads me to think others may know and I am a complete mug.

im actually quite angry she just assumed I would be her carer for this intimate care, without my explicit consent.

AIBU to feel this way? AIBU to say no in future? AIBU to raise it with the chairwomen and say the lady needs to come with willing carers to perform these tasks?

.

No gloves, 🤢🤢

I think this is what shocked me most…the complete lack of inhibition…her attitude was “ what are you making a fuss about”…I’ve been mortified in a hospital ward when the nurse removed catheter and I peed on floor by accident…offered to clear it up and even bent down to do so after major surgery! I was so embarrassed 😞
I just was in a state of shock really

Yes a no should suffice. Every single time. Sadly it doesn’t always and an explanation is needed.

there is confidence in knowledge when approaching the chairwoman for support especially if the OP is unfortunate to be in a group that would attempt shame or pressure her to provide the support this woman needs.

this does happen a lot unfortunately and a No doesn’t always hit as hard as

‘no I don’t want to run the risk of being accused of indecent behaviour’.

This is rather weird - everyones different but there is no way in HELL i would expect that level of intimate care (and I do need it unless its a fancy wash/dry toilet) without explicitly arranging it with the person involved first.

Is it possible she has asked and been told 'yes thats fine' by someone thinking 'oh so and so won't mind'..

Or has asked and the person she asked hasn't actually realised the full extent of what she was aking for so, assuming it is still just a hand to the loo has said 'yes thats fine'.

I'd raise it with the organiser of the group, it is absolutely not on to either expect other members of the group to do this OR to let the person asking for assistance think others have agreed to it (if thats the case).

Thanks for the advice and general consensus that IANBU

Id not even thought about safeguarding issue
nor the ppe - god knows how long I spent in normal ladies after washing my hands and even souls of my shoes 🤮🤢

It all just felt so “ off”

email to be sent to chair tomorrow then…

wrt comments made around how I refuse in future…that’s no issue, I’ll be saying a straight “ no I cannot help you” at any and all requests and giving her a wide berth. I’ll not even volunteer to push her chair if she’s sat next to me. ( though electronic one seems very nifty now) .

This is so wrong, needs addressing

This is not your issue to sort out. I’m gobsmacked that she didn’t think to bring someone to assist her in the first place and just “assumed” you - or somebody else - would be happy to be her bathroom assistant.

That’s exactly what she did though…she asked if I would “ help her to the loo” n the morning when she arrived,…but no more explanation. Given I’d wheeled her chair in before ( not exactly full of joy due to embarrassment and my own back but to be “ kind”) when she asked that I assumed it was task, so said yes let me know when she needed me to help her. Jeez, she got me there!

at no point did she talk to me explicitly stating her changed needs, limited mobility now, and what exactly she wanted me to do. I’d have said no. I’m not that kind frankly.

I think she bloody well knew that and as deliberately not explicit…her “ I thought you knew” was tellingly not a “ but I told you myself that I need need intimate care now”

If it happens again where she tries to rope you into this, please say no immediately. It's really outrageous of her to expect this from you.

I’ve not used term outrageous to myself even, so relief to hear you use it as it certainly felt like it …

Make sure your email to the chair includes the terms safeguarding and vulnerability, as well as mention of your own back problems and the issue of who is liable if any accidents happen due to people untrained in lifting etc.

It definitely was outrageous, op. You were very kind to help the way you did, even under duress

Agree with @SauronsArsehole
There's too much risk for you and her, aside from the huge issue of her assumptions

And what if you hurt her?

It really is astonishing

Outrageous is absolutely the right word.

You could have done real damage to your back, @Reluctantcareprovider - as a nurse, I was taught how to lift someone safely - it is a serious matter.

I hope you get a satisfactory response to your email.

YANBU at all!!
She took advantage of you and put you in an awful position. I'd definitely be speaking to the chairwoman and refusing to engage with this woman in the future.

Absolutely talk to the chair My male partner had a disability where he had a suprapubic catheter,I helped women in his group empty theirs in the toilet which involved no looking at private parts, both you and her are in a venerable position and their needs to be a plan in place organised by her where someone comes in and does this.

Call me callous but I wouldn't have helped. I would have walked out and hold the person in charge of the group that the woman needed help and let them decide what's best.

The woman in the wheelchair should not expect others to help her on such intimate occasions and should have her husband waiting outside so he can be called in to help.

There's also the danger of you helping lift an overweight disabled woman and injuring yourself or injuring her and her suing you.

I was thinking the same thing. This sounds extraordinary entitled and disinhibited behaviour and makes me wonder what else is going on.

I've known a number of female wheelchair users over the years, one or two of whom I've helped in and out of loos if there's been no disabled facility, and I can't imagine a single one of them behaving like this. I used to perform intimate care procedures for my mum when she was terminally ill but we were both focussed on making it as dignified for each other as possible.

OP, if she's reached the stage where she's incontinent and needs help with toileting then she will have an allowance to pay a carer to accompany her and carry out whatever needs doing.

100% YANBU

I'm sure I would have ended up doing the same and would have then left immediately never to return.

I admire PP who said she would have just walked out, I need better boundaries!

Does sound very unfair, totally different if someone had found themselves unexpectedly in an emergency situation but to come to the group expecting you would provide intimate care is totally unreasonable

Yep, I was carer for my husband with severe and enduring mental illness..even he had DLA for assistance to attend some social events… I used to get in free to cinema with him with his accompanying carer card ( which he did need a carer to go with btw..not taking advantage!).
we’d do the same as a hobby group, even let a carer have a go at our hobby for free and free cuppa and Bickies!

im also at a loss around disinhibitions…my poor old dad has excuse that he has dementia…but it was just so shocking to see someone not embarrassed or modest and just demanding I strip her clothes off or put on the pad …I’m an extremely shy person bodily…put it down to never having sisters🤷🏼‍♀️🤣, and was thinking god, is this what having a disability drives you to? Letting any random person strip you down and see your genitals and bottom? Really 😳

Yep, by the time she was explaining what I had to do, she was clearly desperate for loo and I felt it would have been abusive to leave her like that…so stayed even though I was silently screaming I want to get out of here!

What a load of sexist twaddle.

AIBU to feel this way? AIBU to say no in future? AIBU to raise it with the chairwomen and say the lady needs to come with willing carers to perform these tasks?
None of that is unreasonable and she's very very unreasonable and entitled to expect you to do intimate care without clear explicit consent.