Concerned about women's rights? "Transphobe, far right!". Concerned about Palestinians? "Terrorist sympathiser! anti semite!"

[changefromhr]

Tiresome.

Yes, such idiotic polarised thinking. Much of of coming from the holier than though Left too. Very tribal and not much independent thinking involved.

Never met a "GC" person who, when scratched even lightly, wasn't an out and out transphobe.

Many pro Palestinians are, in fact, anti semitic. RW or otherwise. Mostly LW anti semitic.

Sorry that these inconvenient truths are " tiresome" to face. Deal with it and maybe try some honest reflection.

So it's 'transphobic' to stand up for women's rights. Well what does that tell you sunshine? 🙄

Can we have your definition of transphobia btw? I find that's a useful start to these discussions.

Hmm I agree with you up to a point but I have seen such a lot of blatant old style anti semitism in the last few months accompanied by a lot of ‘nothing to see here’ from people claiming that there is only justified criticism of Israel.
FWIW I am completely appalled by what Israel is doing to Palestinians but I am also extremely concerned about some of the comments about Jews I have seen popping up on here and among friends of friends on Facebook.

Sweeping generalisations like this don’t bloody help!
1: Most GC people I’ve met are not transphobes.
2: Caring about a genocide does not make anyone anti semetic.
3: try thinking a bit deeper!

The left can be both. If you equate independent thinking with being anti Left, then the idiotic polarisation is closer to home than you 🤔

You mean - from those who don't agree with you? Because it couldn't possibly be your polarised position on anything, because you are right. Nuanced thinking, and the ability to engage in rational and open debate is increasingly a rare phenomenon. It is etirely possible to be concerned about Palestinians and also to be concerned about Hamas terrorism and anti-semiticism. It is also entirely possible to be concerned about women's rights and also be concerned about transphobia and the far right (who have no interest in women's rights anyway).

The OP's very premise screams their own polarised and "tribal" thinking.

That's ridiculous

Unfortunately we live in an era in which there can apparently be no nuance in debate.

Driven by IMO, the necessity for everything to be in soundbites (how can you explain the relative challenges in Israel / Palestine in a single sentence?) - and the way in which social media / media in general has created these reinforcing echo chambers full of anonymous (and often extreme) voices.

I would however see that I broadly only see this online and among younger people - real life conversations I have on these sensitive topics are generally pretty reasonable and balanced / can appreciate multiple perspectives.

Those aren’t inconvenient truths, they’re inaccurate generalisations.

Accusations that those who don't agree with you haven't thought deeply enough is pretty rich. Because all thinking people agree with you. Sure.

Thank you .

The most unhelpful phrase in debate is, ‘the right side of history’. People - on the left and the right - are more concerned about being seen to be on the right side of the argument long term than anything else.

Long term, society will accept that single sex spaces are safer for women, but unfortunately there will have to be outrageous examples of criminal men exploiting the current state of the debate in order to get there. This is the fault of people who worry about ‘looking inclusive’.

The ME/Israel/Gaza question has to be resolved by serious diplomacy and discussion, which will come from pressure on regional governments. Taking sides is playing into the hands of bad actors. In the meantime, innocent civilians will continue to be killed.

Nobody seems to manage critical thinking any more, people just spout the overly polarised bollocks they pick up off social media.

Someone was sounding off the other day about "from the river to the sea", so I asked him which river, and which sea, and of course the fucktard didn't have the first clue. I'm not supporting a Hamas-led Palestinian government, because Hamas is scum, and the current Israeli administration is so awful it needs to go ASAP. I care about the Israeli and Palestinian women and children who have been left to suffer in this war, and the Israeli hostages need to come home.

You are welcome to call me terf and transphobe if you like. Men don't belong in womens spaces though, that's all. Men need to take responsibility for transwomen feeling unwelcome and uncomfortable in men's spaces.

By 'transphobe' I suppose you mean a sensible, intelligent person who understands that sex is binary?

Yes anti-semitism has raised its ugly head and seems to be accepted widely. It is frightening.

I don’t believe that a person born with a penis can turn into a woman. I believe they identify as a woman and will respect their pronouns, I have a colleague who has done so.

I believe that women’s only spaces should be respected and people with penises who identify as women should have their own space. I also believe people who were born with penises whether they have undergone sex change or not should not be competing in women’s sports, they have a very unfair advantage

does that make me transphobic?

Not at all - just going on the evidence in front of me.

Great post.

And herein lies the issue IMO.

People are being told that if people don’t agree with their views /understanding of the world - it’s because they’re ‘phobic’, hate them, want them killed etc.

It takes any discussion from 0-100 emotionally, which removes the ability to have a rational debate

And proceeds to denigate sensible, intelligent people who understand that gender is more complicated.

Such as proclaiming airily that the only sensible, intelligent position is one way.

See what I mean by the lightest scratch?

This!

I see FAR more Islamophobia tied up with Western feminism than anti-Semitism, although I that term isn't helpful because it's vague (for a start it includes Palestinians, who are semites, or if it doesn't, it denies their history and identity). I prefer anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish. These are very different things as you have Zionists who are Christian (Biden being one) and anti-Zionists who are Jewish (many of whom are at the "hate marches").

The Islamophobia is rife though in many, many conversations (not only here) about Palestinian women. And that starts with the blanket assumption that they're all Muslim. I've seen staunch feminists saying we can't support Palestinians because that's supporting Hamas, which is deeply patriarchal. Right. So we can't support the women who are then oppressed (in our eyes) by Hamas AND the bombings, maimings, killings, displacement and starvation faced by them and their families?

Palestinian women are t waiting for Western feminists to do anything anyway. They already know...

And told that if they stand with transpeople that they hate women's rights.

So you DO think it's transphobia to understand biology then? That there are just the two sexes? Proving my point perfectly.

FWIW, I couldn't give a flying fuck about 'gender', but I care very much what sex someone is because the male sex is a danger to the female sex and women and girls deserve safety and dignity away from males.

Tie yourself in knots over gender all you like, that's up to you but don't expect me or the rest of the world to join in or become 'believers'.