Spending downsizing cash

[CueilleLeJour]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable here.

Mum is 87 and downsized a few years after we lost my dad. She bought a nice little flat and had £150K from the sale.

Growing up, we never had much money and dad kept a close hand on the purse strings. Mum was left with a comfortable but not huge pension, and some moderate savings which she has spent over the last few years.

Since downsizing, she has basically had access to more free money than she's ever had in her life. In the last year, she's spent nearly half the £150k. Mostly on the flat - new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, furniture, professional decorating etc - but also an expensive holiday. It's clearly been an amazing feeling for her to have all the money she could dream of and spend it without my dad's disapproving eye peering over her shoulder. Part of me thinks it's great and she should just enjoy it while she can.

But part of me is really alarmed at her getting through half the proceeds in a year, and I worry about possible future care needs. My BIL's mum is 90 and has been in a care home for 3 years and it's just burning cash. They wouldn't let her in without proving she had 2 years of costs up front - which I think was about 140K.

My mum is just convinced she won't ever need a care home, and I know she's better off than many people who have nothing put by. It's also really none of my business, it's her money to do what she wants with. It's not dementia or anything, just someone who has never really had to make financial decisions having a whale of a time splashing the cash.

But am I right to have a little anxiety about it all?

YABU You only live once, she's right to spend it while she can
YANBU It's a bit reckless to spend half your downsizing profits in the first year

I would be concerned if she keeps going and spends the lot, and would hope she at least keeps a healthy nest egg of at least 50k?

However, I don't think £75k for a house reno (and a big holiday) is a lot. I don't know how private care fees work but say if £75k pays for 1-2 years of private care in a home, the enjoyment she gets from this house over the next few years (or longer hopefully) is just as worth it time-wise, in terms of her life – and may contribute to her sense of wellbeing which is a big factor in slowing elderly deterioration too.

Plus home visits are not necessarily a bad option compared to a care home – if it's not a severe health deterioration, she may also want to keep her independence and familiar surroundings and lifestyle, only somewhat assisted. In that case a nice home would raise her quality of life.

Also as others have pointed out, this will also increase the property value anyway.

Mine too. She now has a gardener come once every two weeks, a beautiful modern kitchen and a lovely bathroom with large walk in shower and no bath.

My lovely dad, a tradesman, used to do everything but stopped as he aged and got Alzheimer’s but wouldn’t let her get anyone in to keep up with it, as he would “get round to it”.

She spent about £30k in the first year after. I was happy for her.

You shouldn’t be paying for it, the local authority should be footing the bill if she has less than £23.5k. In @CueilleLeJour‘s mum’s case there’s a flat that can be sold to pay care home fees should it become necessary.

Try not to worry too much it's impossible to know what the future may bring. There is a proposal to cap care fees from Oct 2025 so that might change the system slightly.
She will still have the flat as an asset as someone else mentioned.

Her money her choices.
She may have always planned on spending half and saving half, it sounds like the things she has spent it on are one off purchases she won't need to buy again so let her enjoy it.
Be a very sad situation if she dies in 6 months and still has a load of money she could of enjoyed while able.
She will still get care if needed in the future if needed but like someone else said it may not be as nice/preferred choice as will be council/benefits funded.

It's a very fine balance in life of saving money for when you need it and also spending enough to enjoy it while your here.

She has furnished her home and had one very well deserved holiday.If you said it was all spent on holidays then yes that would be reckless, but she deserves to live in comfort.Her flat will be an asset to pay for her care.

Is it her care costs you are worried about or your inheritance?

Just for the record, as DH and I have investigated recently, really good care/nursing homes are about £78,000 per annum.

MIL gets about £35k pension (her occupational pension, a widows pension from FIL and the state pension. Her house could probably be let for £24,000 which would net a further £11,000 after tax, maintenance and mgt. However, had she ever spent a penny on the house, it could probably be let for £3k pcm.

At the end if the day there would be about a £32k shortfall in the fees per annum.

Care/nursing homes that provide the care for what the state will provide are not too nice.

It depends on the fees. Local authorities have a cap on what they can pay and that means you're consigned to something within that budget. If you've been paying out of your own pocket and your money runs out families can be asked to top up the local authority contribution to allow the person to stay in the same place. If they can't or won't top up then the person has to move into somewhere within the local authority budget.

There’s no point putting the flat in trust now, she would need to live to 95 to have any benefit, and while that is completely possible it is unlikely. A trust would have needed to be done years ago.

If your relatives go into care you do not have to pay for it. Councils may try and guilt trip you into paying for it but you just say no. Obviously if people want to pay for their relatives care they can

I'd just tell her that, I'm happy she's enjoying her money. But to makes sure she doesn't spend it all, because she might need a cleaner and carers in the future. As long as you've warned her, the responsibility lies with her, not you. Aside from that, there's nothing you can do. It's her money to do as she pleases, as long as is of sound mind.

Hi I’m a nurse now in the NHS and honestly I’d be alarmed if an elderly relative didn’t have £200k+ aside for final years. A decade ago there was state care / facilities. Now in my hospital over a third of the beds are people fit for discharge but awaiting care. Even people who can afford it can’t find care packages or homes. The last 2 years of my aunts life recently cost her whole flat plus savings plus family input.
A Decade ago or so people would just drop dead but that rarely happens now - death is medicated so becomes protracted. 10-15 years ago people did have a stroke and immediately die or an MI etc. now we stop that happening so quite often it’s the side effects of dementia or a long decline instead.
My grandma in law did the same as your mum (although 20 years ago she was given a council house when money dried up then state funded care, impossible now) and I think it’s a lot to do with being controlled by a partner or poor income in earlier years. It’s important they’re happy in their spending too.

Ha ha ha, a spare £200k😂😂🤣

Both my parents dropped dead so it still happens

You'll get people saying it's her money, cant take it with you etc but sometimes this sort of thing is upsetting because it forces you to see things in a new light. Perhaps your dad was never the baddie you/your mum had him pegged as but someone that had to take control of finances because she was always spendy? Now you're getting to peer over her disapprovingly and it doesnt feel very nice.

Either way, its not a responsible or healthy way to spend money.

Perhaps she thinks of she spends it she can use taxpayers money for care and that that care will be of the standard she expects. The reality is that a bit of private home health may allow her to spend years longer in the comfort of her own home, support the purchase of a mobility scooter, just generally make life comfortable. Cleaner, carer, home help, DIY.

If she had a plan, X for holidays, Y for decorating etc but as it is, she is spending what she and your dad worked hard for at an unsustainable rate. Almost like a shopping/spending addiction. You'll get people saying she can spend it as she likes but if she was spending his fast on takeaways, bingo, her friends, on clothes, people would be on the same page.

Are you worried as well that she is assuming you'll fill the role of home help, shopping, cleaning, caring etc?

My Mum did the same, she had lovely time. She only had 5 years of life after my Dad, before she passed away. She blew a lot! His pension, the downsizing house money, lots of holidays to places my Dad would never have gone.

At the time I was worried like yourself, but in retrospect it wasn't anything to do with me and she had a brilliant time.

Enjoy life while you can!

I've been deeply involved in caring for both my father, who died a grim 18 months after falling and breaking his hip at 80, and my FIL, who died after a brutal 18 months of dementia. I've also seen what that period of care did for my mother and MIL, who were broken women by the end.

It's precisely because I take my responsibilities for my family seriously that I am concerned about the future. I know if they need care I will be there for them - but I don't think it's selfish to be concerned about the possibility of spending my own retirement as an unpaid carer, or having one of them come and live with us. I've seen friends go through that - I will 100% do that if needed, but I know exactly what's involved, and it is far from easy.

I'm really sorry for your loss, and I know I am very lucky to have had my mum for so long. if your sister put your mum in a home without you knowing about it, I'm guessing you weren't very involved in her day to day care, perhaps because you didn't live nearby? So you might have a slightly romantic idea of what caring for a frail elderly parent is like.

It's striking on here that the ones who think I'm not being unreasonable have generally been more involved with elderly care. Of course if she's going to drop dead in the next few years she should spend all she can - I don't need it or want it. But I think it's those of us who have cared for someone very frail and dependent who know it's not always that easy.

My mum had to go into a care home and she paid for it from the sale of her house. She paid for approx two years and then the council paid for the following five years before she died. They never asked me or my brother to contribute. She also stayed where she was, no pressure to move somewhere cheaper.

I will ensure I have enough money to be able to choose a decent place and pay for a while but there’s no point going without and hanging on to a load of money.

Your mum should enjoy herself whilst she’s able to.

No pockets in a shroud.

You can see a financial adviser and transfer her property into a trust which will ring fence half of it. That means if she goes into care, only half of its value can be taken. We have just done this. It is legal and not classed as dissipation of assets, as it would should she transfer the whole house, given her age.

There was never any question about us looking after her …. my fathers parents lived with them and my mum said it nearby cost them their marriage and said she’d never want that for us.

Even if OP is worried about her inheritance, 75k is crazy for decorating a flat and a holiday. Even 20k on a holiday for one means her mum has spent 55k on decorating - not refurbishment, decorating!

Its taboo to talk about inheritance but come on, I cannot even imagine not wanting to spend some of that on helping my child out, paying for a family holiday together, a chunk of mortgage payments, a bit of childcare, moving costs, an extension, days out as a family. Anything really that would be an investment in my child would feel better to me than spending it all on myself with the nicest things money can buy.

I hope this is what exactly what happens! This thread has been very helpful in giving me a bit of perspective, and I am trying to just relax and enjoy the fact she is active and happy.

I'm actually going with her on the "expensive holiday". I'm paying for myself and it is 3 times the price of any holiday I've ever been on, but it will make the travelling less stressful for her. I'm very much looking forward to spending time with her and making memories, and I'm sure it will be worth every penny.

I should be clear, my anxiety was not about any individual purchase, more about the wisdom of her spending half her available cash in a year. It seems quite childlike to me, but as most people think she is right, I'm quite happy to wind my neck in and just enjoy her while she's here.

spent 55k on decorating - not refurbishment, decorating!

New kitchen and bathroom is refurbishment. I can’t believe the horror at someone spending their own money on things that give them pleasure. Christ only knows what nasty judgemental comments you’d make if you could see my spending.

I'm planning a complete flat refurbishment - new windows, new carpets, redecoration, the lot. I'm budgeting £ 40k. And that doesn't include the kitchen. And if OP's DM really splashed out on a holiday - top end cruise to Antartica, say - she could easily spend £ 10K.