Spending downsizing cash

[CueilleLeJour]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable here.

Mum is 87 and downsized a few years after we lost my dad. She bought a nice little flat and had £150K from the sale.

Growing up, we never had much money and dad kept a close hand on the purse strings. Mum was left with a comfortable but not huge pension, and some moderate savings which she has spent over the last few years.

Since downsizing, she has basically had access to more free money than she's ever had in her life. In the last year, she's spent nearly half the £150k. Mostly on the flat - new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, furniture, professional decorating etc - but also an expensive holiday. It's clearly been an amazing feeling for her to have all the money she could dream of and spend it without my dad's disapproving eye peering over her shoulder. Part of me thinks it's great and she should just enjoy it while she can.

But part of me is really alarmed at her getting through half the proceeds in a year, and I worry about possible future care needs. My BIL's mum is 90 and has been in a care home for 3 years and it's just burning cash. They wouldn't let her in without proving she had 2 years of costs up front - which I think was about 140K.

My mum is just convinced she won't ever need a care home, and I know she's better off than many people who have nothing put by. It's also really none of my business, it's her money to do what she wants with. It's not dementia or anything, just someone who has never really had to make financial decisions having a whale of a time splashing the cash.

But am I right to have a little anxiety about it all?

YABU You only live once, she's right to spend it while she can
YANBU It's a bit reckless to spend half your downsizing profits in the first year

Slightly concerned that you'll be left looking after her...wow do you realise how awful you make that sound. I would have given anything to be able to take care of my mum but had that chance cruelly taken away from me by my own sister. My mum was 60 when she passed away after being dumped in a care home by my sister which I wasn't even aware of till I got a phone call 3 days after being put in there saying she had died
Let her enjoy the time she has left

Slightly concerned that you'll be left looking after her...wow do you realise how awful you make that sound.

The OP doesn’t sound awful, not everyone can be safely looked after by a relative, things aren’t as simple as that.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. I am right in the middle of an elderly relative having to make really tough decisions on finances and care and it's really hard on her. She wants to be in her own home with 24 hour care but realistically she needs to sell her house to afford care. It's a very difficult conversation and it would have been better to have had it 10 years ago.

Your mum is entitled to do what she wants with her money but you can help her understand the consequences of her decisions before it becomes a crisis situation. I would recommend setting up a LPOA ASAP (bitter experience). At older ages things can change in an instant.

What do you mean 'more free money? She has spent a lot in a year but it doesn't sound as if the money has been squandered but spent sensibly on a holiday and refurbishing her home.

Let her enjoy herself. My 87 year old mother is waiting for urgent, life saving surgery. Without it she's got 9 months tops. I'm glad she's spent the last 25 years enjoying herself and cruising! She could drop dead at any time at present.

Let your mother enjoy herself.

‘Totally attainable for many” makes an assumption that I am a single person household with paid off mortgage and that I go from being employed FT straight to the care home at the age of 68 which will allow me to spend my pension directly on care home fees.
Where is my partner supposed to go? How am I supposed to save £720 if I spend my salary paying off the mortgage and have to live on my pension between the ages of 68 and 80. Where is that £270k supposed to come from?

Care homes aren’t inevitable. Sadly mine and my DH’s elderly relatives all died quite quickly with support from relatives and hospice care while they stayed at home.

Let your mum spend her money and have fun.

Family’s aren’t responsible financially for their parents care needs

This is not correct.

Mostly on the flat - new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, furniture, professional decorating etc

Is the flat future proofed for her? I.e. is it ground floor, does the building have a lift, is the bathroom a wet room with special non slip lino?

If not, I agree she’s wasted an opportunity with the cash.

I think the subtext under a lot of the posts berating you OP is that ultimately a lot of these posters see you as back up care for your mother.

I think you need to be clear to your mum that she can’t move in with you and you can’t be her full time carer so she needs to consider that when managing her finances.

Personally I'd be telling her to transfer ownership of the flat into a trust so that it doesn't get taken with care fees (that may or may not be needed).

DO NOT DO THIS. This is unbelievably bad advice. It’s deliberate deprivation of assets. The money can still be claimed to pay for care, and your mum would lose the amount spent on the trust to a lawyer who would have to be extremely dodgy to agree to do this. Why tf would you advise anyone to do this, you are clearly clueless.

OP, as long as your mum’s flat is valued at least enough to fund 2 or 3 years’ care, whatever is required in your area, then she can spend all her money without losing out from a care perspective.

New kitchen, bathroom, carpets, furniture, professional decorating etc. It soon adds up. She wouldn’t have got much change from £40-50k for the kitchen and bathroom alone

in a massive house perhaps but not a flat and I live in London and have had both done.

That’s completely untrue, your friend has been very badly advised. The onus to pay for care lies with the care recipient and them alone. Families don’t have to pay for a loved one’s care. However, money given away or put in trust can be clawed back.

Have you had the conversation with her what her care looks like to her in the future? I’d start there.

I think it's very easy for some people to mother their own parents like they're children. As long as she has the autonomy to make her own decisions then you need to leave her to it. I know it's done because relatives care, but it can cause rifts in families and push people away. Imagine if your children suddenly started telling you that you couldn't spend your money as you wished, you wouldn't listen and potentially be more secretive about your spending.
Ultimately, if she needs care in the future she will get it if she has money or not. We don't send old folks to the workhouse anymore. I wish more old people would spend their money and enjoy themselves. When my grandma died she had very little, was in a council flat and didn't have any fun or buy herself anything nice. She didn't have a will but she had about £30k in savings which was distributed to her sons and grandchildren. When I went to her funeral my cousin's said they hadn't seen her for years. One hadn't seen her for ten years! It was disgusting and I wish she had spent that money on herself instead of her family that clearly didn't give a toss about her.
I'd ban inheritance it brings out the worst in people and parents feel like they have to leave something to their children, like it's their duty. There are old ladies sitting in freezing cold homes because they "can't afford" to put the heating on, yet they have thousands in the bank. Rant over!

My mum downsized at 78, went into a care home at 79 and died aged 81. Every minute of the whole process was miserable.

I would have been thrilled if at any point she had been on a spree or had some fun. As it is she has left an (entirely unexpected) estate in excess of a million pounds and many unhappy memories.

My mum has some mild mental health issues which make her think people around her expect money from her. She is giving £100s away every couple of weeks to her adult children (my siblings) who should know better. I refuse to take any money from her.

She is now making an expensive purchase for one sibling which will wipe out her savings.

I do worry for her, because I think she lacks full agency and I worry about her depleted savings.

Inevitably she will look to me for support and not my siblings.

Lol 😂 you say that but my dad has been on end of life care three times this year he is 97 . The care home seem to have pumped him full of magic again as he’s having a whale of a time with all the activities and people on £8000 a month .
don’t underestimate these oldies. It’s great to see .

if the personal wealth goes down to 23,500 the government will start to help out .

unfortunately there was a new law coming out in 2023 that a person’s home could not be sold to fund care. However this has been moved until 2025. ( plus probable change of government)

anyone ever in this situation should make sure their elderly person is getting attendance allowance, apply for pension credits, state pension, f n c ( funded nursing care ) and then if necessary if person is very infirm . C h c ( continued health care. This is full payment of care non means tested) A lot of these benefits are NOT Means tested . My parents both with teachers pensions get most of these except pension credits ( means tested) and c h c (not Ill enough yet)

age concern is an excellent place to get advice .

hope this helps some people.

Please make sure you are getting all the financial help you can for your dad.
there is so much hidden there.
he could get c h c if he has bad dementia , go into a top quality nursing home at no or little cost . He would definitely qualify for f n c even now . That’s £1000 roughly a month . Plus attendance allowance.
mall of these are not means tested .

please use this information and make him comfy in a great home with lots of fun activities like my dad whose 97 .

Don’t use your money you need it .
the government will help towards any costs . But there should be few with dementia.
get looking for a great home now really do your homework, go alone to begin with so you can make a short list .
my dad has got a new life .

Please see my post . There are many benefits she can get easily .
not means tested .
they are all easy to apply for . F n c , c h c , need to be applied for by a gp or nurse or home manager as and when the time comes .

Are you sure you're not just like dear old dad? Frankly, at 87, I'm going to spend whatever I like that makes me happy.

I’d like to thing she has her last home just right for her and she’s probably having the kind of holiday your dad wouldn’t have wanted to pay for. Let her live a little. Life is literally too short. Let her be happy. I understand what you are worried about though, totally understandable. Hopefully she’ll be in her own happily for years to come.

The size of the property is irrelevant. Quality costs money. Our new kitchen cost £40k, a lot of that was on appliances. The fridge freezer alone was £1.6k. I imagine OP’s mum had exactly what she wanted without looking at the prices. And quite right too after a lifetime of watching the pennies - or having them watched for her.

I feel your pain. The same happened with my grandma when she lost her husband and my mum. She spent everything! She is now in a care home and we are paying for it. FYI mine never thought she ll need one but she got to 97 years old and her abilities obviously changed. It’s very difficult unfortunately to convince elderly people what to do. We tried very hard!

Many would consider this sort of thing as just good financial planning op. At 87 she’s unlikely to have 10 years left.. my grandad wanted carer visits over a care home so I can assure you that’s not necessarily worse but it wasn’t much cheaper!!! Full care at home or in a home is likely to be more than her income so I don’t think it matters too much at this point. I’d be making sure the context was right for her, eg no stairs/walk in large shower etc etc as those things will likely be useful in future.