Page 4 | Can anyone give some ideas to say to a 12 year old boy who is refusing to go into school?

Louise000000 · 2024-02-23T07:50:44+00:00

Some ideas that I may not have thought of, refusing school because it’s boring, he doesn’t care if he gets a job he just wants to play video games and stream all day. not my ds but a good friends ds and i said id help as i have a career advisor background and he also has a good relationship with me. She’s at the end of her tether with him. I know as an adult why he needs to go into school and why it’s important but any ideas that would translate to a 12 year old? thanks

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 23/02/2024 12:41

I'm pretty sure he is being bullied.
Children are often to scared and or ashamed to speak out

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 13:03

RosieAway · 23/02/2024 11:47

Thanks for this patronising reply. I am fully aware of what home schooling is, who is doing it in my area and the myriad reasons why I am unable to and many others in my less fortunate circumstance aren’t. There IS an element of privilege, given many would desperately wish to yet can’t which you seem keen to deny. Also you seem keen to hammer home your superior understanding of HS. Of course I know it’s not teaching them algebra all day in front of a blackboard. So. Patronising. But even if it’s an hour or two a day, what’s the single mum who’s a cleaner out in jobs meant to do with DC the rest of the day?

Given we are essentially on the “same side” re school, I actually despair at your “if you really wanted to and really cared about your child, you’d find a way”
attitude.

The long-term answer isn’t pulling all the kids out BTW, it’s reform of the mainstream which how exactly are you contributing to?

Edited

Show quote history

I don't think I've been patronising at all. You were literally telling me the type of people who home educate, when I know from a lot of first hand experience that you are wrong and explained as much. You also said I must live in an affluent bubble, which is also very wrong. So who was patronising who?
By pointing out that half of home educators are doing it not through choice or privilege, but because schools aren't meeting their childs needs, wasn't me saying "If you really cared, you'd find a way" That's you bringing your own issues and sensitivities into the discussion. It's also patronising of you to say how laughable it is to suggest certain types of people can offer their kids an adequate education!
I haven't tried to say that home ed is an easy choice. I've said that there are many different ways to do it and that lots of different kinds of people make it work. Lots who've had no other choice.
There is no reason for me personally, to make efforts to reform the school system. My kids aren't in it through choice. Surely, the people who should push for reform are the stakeholders. The teachers and the parents of school children. However you could say home ed families like mine, are contributing to make the school system better, because it would cost millions if they all went back to school. We have also caused much discussion in wider circles and the press, which has caused more people to question how fit for purpose, the school system is. Now you just need parents and teachers to grab that momentum and push for change.

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 13:04

GenerousGardener · 23/02/2024 10:08

@Fionaville he went to school. He tried it again a few days later with the same result. He goes to school now without protest because he knows the outcome if he refused. School is not an option.

Education is not an option. How that education is delivered is.

Shabooboogaloo · 23/02/2024 13:05

All devices would go in a big lock box for starters, to be earned back.
schools not supposed to be exciting every second, it is boring to learn subjects you don’t have an affinity with!

RosieAway · 23/02/2024 13:17

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 13:03

I don't think I've been patronising at all. You were literally telling me the type of people who home educate, when I know from a lot of first hand experience that you are wrong and explained as much. You also said I must live in an affluent bubble, which is also very wrong. So who was patronising who?
By pointing out that half of home educators are doing it not through choice or privilege, but because schools aren't meeting their childs needs, wasn't me saying "If you really cared, you'd find a way" That's you bringing your own issues and sensitivities into the discussion. It's also patronising of you to say how laughable it is to suggest certain types of people can offer their kids an adequate education!
I haven't tried to say that home ed is an easy choice. I've said that there are many different ways to do it and that lots of different kinds of people make it work. Lots who've had no other choice.
There is no reason for me personally, to make efforts to reform the school system. My kids aren't in it through choice. Surely, the people who should push for reform are the stakeholders. The teachers and the parents of school children. However you could say home ed families like mine, are contributing to make the school system better, because it would cost millions if they all went back to school. We have also caused much discussion in wider circles and the press, which has caused more people to question how fit for purpose, the school system is. Now you just need parents and teachers to grab that momentum and push for change.

Show quote history

Nope, you’ve got no interest in the other children struggling at school as you have the means to try and make it better for your own.

I actually care about all children and have empathy for all those families struggling. You are lucky and privileged you are able to step out of the system.

And instead of answering how a single mum who is a cleaner can home educate, you’ve chosen to say I’m projecting my own issues.

Just admit the playing field isn’t equal. I despair of the attitudes of this country; everyone should care

Daylightsavingscrime · 23/02/2024 13:25

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 09:10

It's interesting that the general consensus is to find a way to force him into school, when he is telling his parent that the education he's receiving there isn't sufficient or engaging him. Is the point of education not to inspire? If his love of learning has been squashed, it needs to be reignited. That can't be done by force or control.
Does forcing an unengaged child into school result in X amount of GCSEs at a good grade and put them onto a career path that will be both fulfilling and lucrative? Looking at the majority of the population, I'd say not.
Lecturing a child about what they need to do now, for the benefit of their adult self, rarely ignites passion for learning. Why would they make themselves unhappy now, for the sake of an unknown future?
I would investigate his passions now and taylor his education accordingly.

Well if he has any passionate interests (beyond gaming) then yes these should be encouraged but ultimately when he’s an adult he’ll need to get a job and refusing to engage with education will hamper that I expect.

Not just due to lack of qualifications but “disengages if not sufficiently interested” doesn’t sound like a good bet for an employee

Original poster

Louise000000 · 23/02/2024 13:27

Some great advice here I’m going to read it all through later on!!
yes to those who said I’m coming in as more a friend for him to open up to and I want to help make going to school better for him.

the school are involved and have sent staff round for him etc he will eventually go in then maybe have a good spell then it starts again.
there is definitely gaming allowed till late so this would explain tiredness in the morning and no motivation and that’s something his mum will have to change at home.

ive tried to angle about his interests with the idea that say if he was into outdoor activities or a sport, I could find a young role model type person to chat with him and tell him he could be doing this as a job if he gets his school done and dusted, but unfortunately his only interest is gaming which is totally out of my expertise.

OP posts:

Daylightsavingscrime · 23/02/2024 13:36

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 13:04

Education is not an option. How that education is delivered is.

Show quote history

Well not necessarily. A single parent who works will not be able to home school. Two parents may not be able to if they both need to work.

Can the child just not go to
school? Tucking them away in a bubble where nothing is challenging or not their cup of tea is not really a permanent solution as that will (presumably) stop
once they’re an adult.

Obvioulsy if there are MH issues or something like bullying going on then that would need to be addressed.

Fionaville · 23/02/2024 13:47

RosieAway · 23/02/2024 13:17

Nope, you’ve got no interest in the other children struggling at school as you have the means to try and make it better for your own.

I actually care about all children and have empathy for all those families struggling. You are lucky and privileged you are able to step out of the system.

And instead of answering how a single mum who is a cleaner can home educate, you’ve chosen to say I’m projecting my own issues.

Just admit the playing field isn’t equal. I despair of the attitudes of this country; everyone should care

Show quote history

Please, I live in Merseyside. I don't need anybody giving me a lecture on inequality. We have more food banks than food shops in our area.
I didn't realise I was supposed to give a 'how to guide' specifically a single mum, who's a cleaner, to be able to home educate. I do have two close friends who home educate, who are single and in low paid jobs. One has older children, who can be left. She works as a lunch time assistant in a school, so sets her kids tasks while she's out. Then works in a pub when her ex has the kids.
Another has a younger child who can't be left, so started a dog walking business and has a business doing party balloons and buffets. Her ex isn't in the picture.
I care about all kids, which is why I volunteer so much of my time to them and also help the children who come out of the school system completely traumatised. But that doesn't mean I'm personally going to take on the responsibility of reforming the school system, of which I have no personal business. I've done my part in highlighting it and taking the strain off of it.

birdglasspen2 · 23/02/2024 13:49

Remove all video games and screen time. Or allow it only on a Saturday. That’s it. Simple.

InsaneInTheMamBrain · 23/02/2024 13:53

Careers advice may help him, especially if it was with an aim to helping him plan manageable short and long term goals for working in the gaming industry. It is amazing how disengaged students often start making an effort as many are, like adults, money motivated and want help to get on a path. Careers advice is woeful in schools; not their fault.

Aiming to take a qualification they are interested in early- Yr 9- can also focus students in KS3 when they sometimes lose their way, although you may have to find tutoring and an exam centre outside school to support his interests.

I would also find out if one subject is particularly dull for him and speak to the teacher and ask if there are opportunities for group work, IT brought into the lesson, individual project time, more speaking and listening opportunities - whatever it is that he enjoys most (or dislikes least) about classroom learning. Teachers are often open to trying different methods of engagement if they can. It’s about meeting in the middle, rather than forcing him to bend to the rules.

Bribery may also work…

YouJustDoYou · 23/02/2024 13:58

I loathed school too, wasn't being bullied, school was just an absolute drain of life and horrid shitshow. But you went because you had to. He doesn't have a choice; he goes to school, or all his gaming rights and priviledges get removed, no ifs or buts.

Scarletttulips · 23/02/2024 13:58

DS did this and I removed all his gadgets - so he found out what being really board actually meant.

It also reset his sleep.

I would speak the teachers - I mean they know what they are doing - but he has to be there to engage.

If he wants a gaming career call a local office and see if they have any advice on how to become xyz - it might make a diffence.

Toastcrumbsinsofa · 23/02/2024 14:25

I’d remove all games, consoles and screens as a starting point until he has been attending school on a regular basis for a few months. Wi-Fi should be switched off overnight. If he needs an alarm to wake up, he can have an old fashioned alarm clock. His parents need to be far more strict about enforcing rules. He will probably kick off if he is forced to stop gaming and reduce screen time but it’s important for his well-being and his future that his parents persevere. Going to school shouldn’t be optional.

LaPalmaLlama · 23/02/2024 15:24

Honestly I think people who think there must be more to it than he just wants to stay at home gaming are being hugely naive. I’ve sat in meetings where gaming companies explain just how addictive their games are ( and that’s a good thing because addiction =$$$$ for them and the shareholders). They don’t say addictive though. They say engaging because it sounds better. Look at the number of tech bros who don’t let their own kids have access to this stuff. Given the choice between gaming and school or even gaming and home school, the vast majority of teens will choose gaming. It’s just instant gratification and an immediate dopamine hit.

Honestly, tell your friend to take away the tech. If he’d still rather stay home and be totally bored than go to school or if he starts finding stuff to teach himself, then yes there’s probably something else going on at school but address the most obvious likelihood first- if you hear hooves you don’t think zebras, do you?

Mumz0612 · 23/02/2024 15:29

This is my youngest hasn't been to school since January said it's boring, then has a massive break down telling me she's been getting bullied by her so called friend and was scared of telling me as she knew I'd put a stop to it

PocketSand · 23/02/2024 16:52

@Fionaville is a saint. I am more selfish/burned out by staying in the system - EHCPs, tribunal etc

I stayed in the system for DS1 despite refusal but when specialist school failed and I saw the impact on him as an individual I lost faith.

At the first whiff of refusal DS2 had bespoke package that included internet school but I had to be on hand as unpaid TA. I was at home to care for suicidal school refusing DS1 anyway.

Both have ASD/ADHD btw.

DS1 has been severely traumatised by his schooling experience - maybe he would always have been severely impacted (unable to leave the house, unable to communicate with anyone but me) but maybe not.

After bespoke package, DS2 is now at 6th form (in person) and has several offers from prestigious universities to study engineering. Maybe he would have been OK in m/s maybe not.

None of the other parents gave a shiny shit about my DC unless they wanted them to go away because they took too much resource or their stimming was distracting. But I'm expected to care about their children?

It is shit. I never wanted to give up a career to be a carer. Who does? I did it because I didn't want my suicidal child to die or my other child to become suicidal.

School refusal due to boredom is extremely rare.

Delatron · 23/02/2024 16:57

LaPalmaLlama · 23/02/2024 15:24

Honestly I think people who think there must be more to it than he just wants to stay at home gaming are being hugely naive. I’ve sat in meetings where gaming companies explain just how addictive their games are ( and that’s a good thing because addiction =$$$$ for them and the shareholders). They don’t say addictive though. They say engaging because it sounds better. Look at the number of tech bros who don’t let their own kids have access to this stuff. Given the choice between gaming and school or even gaming and home school, the vast majority of teens will choose gaming. It’s just instant gratification and an immediate dopamine hit.

Honestly, tell your friend to take away the tech. If he’d still rather stay home and be totally bored than go to school or if he starts finding stuff to teach himself, then yes there’s probably something else going on at school but address the most obvious likelihood first- if you hear hooves you don’t think zebras, do you?

Exactly. With the update ‘he’s allowed to stay up until late gaming’

Well there’s your answer as to why he doesn’t want to go. He has no boundaries and is allowed to do what he likes.

Daylightsavingscrime · 23/02/2024 18:00

School refusal due to boredom is extremely rare

I think a lot of kids would skip school if they could get away with it though. I appreciate that your kids had extra support needs but speaking in general very few children go to school because they genuinely think it’s a good use of their time.* *

lateatwork · 23/02/2024 18:03

For all those saying 'ban consoles / tech' what would you do if the child's passion was football and they refused school? Would you puncture their ball because they were so absorbed in football and trained every night?

Would you think the were addicted?

Or would you think that football was a positive in their life and maybe something else was going on?

OutOfTheHouse · 23/02/2024 18:13

LaPalmaLlama · 23/02/2024 15:24

Honestly I think people who think there must be more to it than he just wants to stay at home gaming are being hugely naive. I’ve sat in meetings where gaming companies explain just how addictive their games are ( and that’s a good thing because addiction =$$$$ for them and the shareholders). They don’t say addictive though. They say engaging because it sounds better. Look at the number of tech bros who don’t let their own kids have access to this stuff. Given the choice between gaming and school or even gaming and home school, the vast majority of teens will choose gaming. It’s just instant gratification and an immediate dopamine hit.

Honestly, tell your friend to take away the tech. If he’d still rather stay home and be totally bored than go to school or if he starts finding stuff to teach himself, then yes there’s probably something else going on at school but address the most obvious likelihood first- if you hear hooves you don’t think zebras, do you?

Exactly. I think a lot of people here simply don’t realise how so many games are designed to be utterly addictive.

If he was wanting to stay at home all day online gambling then no one would have a problem saying that he was addicted. These games provide the exact same hit as gambling.

OutOfTheHouse · 23/02/2024 18:15

lateatwork · 23/02/2024 18:03

For all those saying 'ban consoles / tech' what would you do if the child's passion was football and they refused school? Would you puncture their ball because they were so absorbed in football and trained every night?

Would you think the were addicted?

Or would you think that football was a positive in their life and maybe something else was going on?

Edited

The two aren’t comparable. Online gaming is designed to be addictive.

lateatwork · 23/02/2024 18:17

I'm sure kids refused school even before gaming was around. So banning it won't solve the refusal problem

Taylormiffed · 23/02/2024 18:17

Do you know what he is struggling with at school? What have school put in place to support him?

Cutting off WiFi probably won't make a blind bit of difference. Been there, done that.

ExtraOnions · 23/02/2024 18:20

Gaming in itself is not a bad thing. Esports is a $2.2bn a year industry, with a variety of careers, so lots of opportunities.
DD missed all of Y10 & Y11, she was late diagnosed with ASD. Loves gaming, now on a L3 BTEC in Esports, looking towards a career as a Digital Content Creator. She’s creating content now, and raising her Digital profile.

With a view to this particular young person, is he refusing or is he avoiding? Are there particular issues at school? Does he know what he wants to do as a career ?