School detention for forgetting a ruler?

[Wizardo]

Just interested - how many people have secondary school aged kids whose school gives a detention for forgetting basic equipment like a ruler?

I wonder does it really teach kids to be organised. Surely it just means disorganised people get lots of detentions? And feeds anxiety?

My schooling in the 90s felt pretty strict but this seems borderline bonkers. My dd currently “can’t borrow a school library book for the rest of the year” as she’s so anxious about getting a detention because she handed her last book in two weeks late. So now we are visiting our local library instead to provide her with books to read! I have obviously told her to just get the detention over and done with but she is adamant and determined to avoid it.

vote Yabu for No detention given
and Yanbu for Detention given.

People act like detention is the death penalty. Just get it over with and learn from it.

Educating teachers on neuro diversity would be a step in the right direction. Having resources and funding for basic things like I've already said.

I didn't hate them. As I explained most people do use them.

Really the only "cure" is medication and that doesn't work for everyone. What you need to understand is that you can't actually "fix" it. It's how some people are. You could give someone detention every night for their entire school career and it won't make their brain work differently.

What you need to do is listen, understand, accept. And stop teaching.

I have a son with ADHD, he would lose a checklist and if he didn’t, he’d only read the first two items 🤣

That is one example. For some children, it helps. For others, not so much.

I have already said several times it does work for some people with Nd and some do thrive in school.

@Chocolatebuttonns many people are stopping teaching, please don't tell someone else to. Too soon forgotten rulers will pale into insignificance when there are no teachers to teach the subject the ruler was required for

Yes no shit.

I agree. I’ve had to point out to my son with ADHD’s teachers that if detentions were effective, he’d have no problem but given that they are not achieving the desired result, it is clear it isn’t that simple. Yes, you can learn strategies. But you can’t punish someone into their brain working differently.

I'm not a teacher. But what is everyone going to do when all the good teachers have left? It's usually the good ones that go first as well.

@Chocolatebuttonns so instead of you and your DH helping your child so they have what they need at school, you want schools to constantly buy equipment to hand out every day?

Adjustments need to be made for SN children, but parents need to do their part as well. Until I knew they had the ability to do it, I made sure the DCs school bags were packed with what they need. I did not say teachers should be handing out anything that was forgotten.

But that is not the fault of the parents is it? It's the fault of the government. I stand by the fact that someone who hates teaching should not be teaching.

So from all my posts of how much I am trying all you took is you think I think school should do things for me.

Lol. Okay.

I agree. I have met teachers who hate it, and they can be downright spiteful.

I think it depends on the context.

If it was a one off thing, then I’d say it would be completely over the top to give a detention and I would be telling the school my child wouldn’t be doing the detention.

If it was on multiple occasions then yeah it might be a bit more justifiable.

It’s almost as if forgotten rulers really aren’t that fucking important.

I have absolutely no idea but frankly it's not my job to find the solution. It's the governments.
I can see why the good ones leave. I really can. What I don't get is if you hate the job that much and you think parents are shit and kids are awful why you'd stay?

I'm 66, pal - started age 22. How many years was I expected to stay in each one, in your opinion? I was head of two of them. Two were during my teacher training.

What sort of point did you think you were making there, by the way?

@Chocolatebuttonns of all parents just supported their SN children to go to school with what they need, then what is the issue with detentions? Those SN children would not get detentions.

I know you said you tried your best to make sure the school bag is packed, but your DH who has no SN does nothing. There is a simple solution for your family.

Some schools are a bit arsy, unnecessarily strict and appear unkind.

They claim it makes children more independent, less reliant on others and lessons run smoother.

I’ve taught under those regimes and I’m not convinced. It can build up resentment and spoil a healthy attitude towards school and education.

I used to buy Tesco value pencils. Used to be 10 for 29p. Yes it cost me but it reduced my stress - and that of the forgetful.

These polices with their catch all methods also penalise those who can’t afford things they need.

It was a massive problem.

It upset and annoyed my kids who wanted to learn I know this as they complained most days - it upset the staff it was often mention again and again by staff at every event parents were at.

It went on for years - and different teachers not being as stupid as you seem to think tried everything to make it a non issue.

What worked was making it an issue for the kids doing it - by giving dentation within weeks my kids stopped moaning about it being a problem - and there were reminders in school correspondence what was expected and consequences of not having it - and that any problems contact the school directly to see if they could help.

What you think should have been a problem or not is utterly irrelevant - pens were a massive problem and as soon that stopped being a problem for everyone else and started being an issue for the kids turning up without - it ceased to be a problem.

I have dyslexia and dyspraxia and went to an extremely strict school - and rapidly learnt to have ways of coping with expectations - it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me to turn up without a pen or paper to a lesson - so fact kids were doing so and that it was such a huge time drain was shocking to me - but that was our experience in RL - our lived experience - and that detentions did stop it very quickly - so should and couldn't don't really matter.

Rulers are different less necessary in my view but then pens were an eye opening experience so now can't discount there being a reason for it in that school - daft as it sounds.

Sorry, at what point have I said "he does nothing"

The issue is with detentions is that they don't work. If they did work, nobody would be in them, would they? Or never more than once.

Anyway..I'm done being insulted and treated like I'm thick and told there's such simple solutions so why doesn't my lazy husband just solve it.

I do think some of these responses show an absolute lack of understanding of what teaching in a normal comprehensive school is like.

If ‘forgetting’ (this will range from genuine forgetting to CBA to have just smashed the pen/ruler whatever the teacher in the last lesson lent me) wasn’t an issue & wasting teaching & learning time, this system wouldn’t be in place. Clearly the school are trying to get the basics right & sometimes this means stripping right back to ‘the basics’ and then loosening up as things improve. A consequence for not having a piece of equipment sorts out the ones who don’t have equipment for understandable reasons (SEND, safeguarding background etc who would be worked with, have adjustments etc) from the ones who CBA or who, with a bit of a nudge would bring it anyway…see earlier poster with the teenage daughter prioritising eyelashes 😂 Your problem is now smaller. You can the work on the others. Most kids in most schools just go with the flow, whatever the social norm is. If the norm is to not bring anything with them & spend the first 15 mins sorting everyone out that’s such a waste of time. The norms need shifting.

I get that if you haven’t taught in a school like this you won’t get it. But it really can’t be that hard to imagine how disruptive this sort of stuff is? A big chunk of kids in my first school never had anything with them & routinely just snapped whatever I gave them. They wouldn’t mention it until I noticed they hadn’t written anything. Dealing with that, alongside coats off, hoods down, phone away, stop TikTok dancing…. Just really tough at times.

Again I'm not a teacher. But I have known teachers, good ones actually and generally they stay because they love teaching and really want to have good outcomes for their children but they can't because they're unsupported and disrespected and not valued over and over and over again by parents, children, SLT, the government and wider society. Teachers used to be respected now they're denigrated and look at the effects.

Why would you punish your child at home if the school has done it?

My DC?, oh ok, yes 'my handful' A grade student at GCSE, studying Politics, Economics and History at A level in a selective state 6th form college. Yes, he's a real 'handful' or DD who is quiet as a mouse and this is commented on in reports but they don't realise that they (the school) is in part a cause of the problem as she is terrified of getting in trouble with the 'rules' and this is a fairly liberal school! Perfectionism is a key aim of an Education these days it seems at least secondary school and it is so damaging! Then again, it was not like that at Junior school where DD thrived due to the common sense approach of the school that included a notion of kindness. What nonsense that you have to punish kids at home as well as school for minor issue as chatting in class.

I am not sure you have any idea how difficult it is to teach all the content in a timely fashion in a disruptive class.
Maybe you have a job where people don't interrupt you 30 times an hour.
If you are allowing a couple of minutes at the beginning and end of each class for handing out stationery to kids who are meant to have it, you might also find covering the required content as well to be a challenge.