School detention for forgetting a ruler?

[Wizardo]

Just interested - how many people have secondary school aged kids whose school gives a detention for forgetting basic equipment like a ruler?

I wonder does it really teach kids to be organised. Surely it just means disorganised people get lots of detentions? And feeds anxiety?

My schooling in the 90s felt pretty strict but this seems borderline bonkers. My dd currently “can’t borrow a school library book for the rest of the year” as she’s so anxious about getting a detention because she handed her last book in two weeks late. So now we are visiting our local library instead to provide her with books to read! I have obviously told her to just get the detention over and done with but she is adamant and determined to avoid it.

vote Yabu for No detention given
and Yanbu for Detention given.

If the bell goes and you haven't finished the lesson then it is YOU who is disorganised.

I'd rank timekeeping above stationery possession both in terms of preparing the kids for real life and not pissing off others.

It always has to come back to Ofsted, doesn't it? This may come as a shock but other professionals also have to spend time on creating audit trails too, you know.

A reasonable adjustment for someone who may have ADHD and constantly forgets things would be to provide them with a checklist so they can self check if they have not got particular equipment. Letting them off for forgetting things can be infantilising them.
And no, before you ask, as a teacher I wouldn't punish anyone for not having basic equipment unless they were using it as an excuse to complete a task. If a student needs assistance in getting the resources for their pencil case, I would discretely make that happen.

Exactly, detention is really not that bad but it's about all schools can do. Hopefully you reinforced the detention with your own punishment at home that she would feel.

I taught in 7 secondary schools in total. I can assure you that "they can borrow from a friend" is not a reliable strategy for a teacher.

Ds managed 7 weeks at a secondary school where each and every infraction was punished with no leeway, no reasonable adjustments for his ASD/PDA.

Memorable detentions were:
Using another pencil to underline a title instead of a ruler (no disruption to anyone until the teacher stopped the class to shout at him)
He slapped a teacher’s hand away when the teacher ruffled his hair (each teacher had been given clear instructions to not touch ds).
For being part of an incident in a corridor (ds was walking to a lesson and was within 5m of an incident but nothing to do with it).

There were many more. I complained, they didn’t give a shit.
I’m sure academies have their place, and they appear to make an awful lot of money somehow, but they tend to not have a good reputation for children with SN. DS’s old school has a long list of pupils with adhd or ASD who ended up feeling forced out of school. Many are now home educating, most (including us) didn’t feel like there was a choice.

It appears to me that the current education system is very bad for so many children. It’s very easy to blame the children and their parents (which so often happens), but at some point the government and school managers need to take a good hard look at why more and more children are struggling with school. As the great child psychologist Ross Greene says, children will do well if they can.

Exactly.

I am not a fan of academies, but I see no issue for a detention for forgetting essential items. If a child is incapable of packing their school bag, surely a parent would help with that?

Again. I sincerely hope you're not a teacher.

I think that if you spent a day in the classroom, you might have a different perspective.

It's a tricky one, because if the kids forget a bit of kit, it means either the school needs to keep spares, if 10 kids in a class of 30 that means the school will need 10 rulers, then the kids pack up and some will take the ruler with them, and some will be determined to see if not shatter really does mean not shatter.
The next class of thirty enter and again 10 scholars have forgotten their ruler, now there are only 5 spare rules, as 3 got taken out of class and 2 got snapped in two (although they didn't shatter sharp bits of plastic everywhere...so theory tested and proved and all good)
By the last class, there are no rulers so the kids who have forgotten can't do their work....RESULT, no incentive for having the right kit!

With the library book situation, it might seem harsh, but what if there is already a waiting list on that book? It now means an even longer wait. I'm assuming it's not an actual text book, as that would potentially mean someone couldn't complete their homework.
So whilst it might seem a minor inconvenience, both instances have wider ramifications. (I say this as someone who spent pretty much their entire school life in detention, which rather goes to show that it wasn't a terribly effective punishment!).

Sorry for not being organised.
I had to confiscate 5 mobile phones and separate a fight.
I'll try to do better next time.
Really sorry
My fault

I hope there is better support than giving them a checklist.

@Chocolatebuttonns where are the parents in this? Surely it is their job to make sure a child goes to school with what they need?

Own punishment at home for talking in a lesson, a bit extreme and draconian. She talked in a lesson, received a detention as a result and has paid her dues. So petty and OTT to then administer a punishment at home that she 'feels'??🙄

Ok, so do I 😁. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

@HadEnufff you’ve really not grasped the point. But no matter.

As I've already previously said referring specifically to kids with ND, parents are often the same and already implementing these things but they're not a cure all.

I obviously have systems / reminders / whatever to ensure my son goes to school with everything he needs and he's in primary so, so far so good. Id be lying if I said I probably won't drop the ball when he's in high school because there's so much more to remember. DH helps obvs but his work pattern means it's me around before bed / before school. Hopefully ds will take more after dh otherwise he's going to have a shit time at high school like I did. And get treated as if he's thick like I did, and still am, judging by this thread.

I think discipline in most schools now is overly rigid, punitive, time consuming and counter productive. Most schools now have isolation units specifically for putting kids in internal exclusion and hire a member of staff to manage it. I’ve had DCs in there for running in the corridor, spilling a drink, and selling sweets to friends. Things which in the 90s teachers barely have a shit about. And they phone home for every little thing, with the result that a phone call home doesn’t scare the crap out of kids like it used to. I was not especially well behaved in secondary school, I still remember standing outside a teachers office after being caught smoking, and the absolute terror and dread I felt knowing she was phoning my mum. My kids on the other hand don’t care because I get calls like “DS1 was part of a group of 6 kids who were being loud at break time”

What do you suggest? You hated my methods/systems/whatever so I'm all ears.

So that means you didn't last long in any of them?

Don't fucking do it then? Seriously if it's so bad, and you genuinely hate it and you have as much contempt for children and parents as you've shown on here, leave.

Nobody is forcing you to do it.

Id happily bloody home school if I didn't have to work for a living, believe me.

Stating the obvious there, as we know there isnt a cure for ADHD, however I have seen some children with ADHD absolutely thrive when a system that works for them is used. It can reduce stress/anxiety, reduce the mental load of having to hold lots of information. For others, it doesn’t make any difference. Because as you know every person who may be neurodiverse will present in different ways and have different needs. Alongside this, they will benefit from different sorts of support.
Being aggressive, insulting and sweary isnt necessary.

That's why there is a current teacher retention and recruitment crisis because everyone told teachers to leave if they hated it, so they did!

@Chocolatebuttonns maybe your DH can double check the packed school bag when he gets home?
I do not think it is the job of teachers to make up for what parents should be doing. So you and your DH have to find strategies that work.

And this is why behaviour is getting worse and worse and worse, students laugh off any sanction the school can hand out and receive none at home. What message d you think that sends a child? Good luck with your handful.