School detention for forgetting a ruler?

[Wizardo]

Just interested - how many people have secondary school aged kids whose school gives a detention for forgetting basic equipment like a ruler?

I wonder does it really teach kids to be organised. Surely it just means disorganised people get lots of detentions? And feeds anxiety?

My schooling in the 90s felt pretty strict but this seems borderline bonkers. My dd currently “can’t borrow a school library book for the rest of the year” as she’s so anxious about getting a detention because she handed her last book in two weeks late. So now we are visiting our local library instead to provide her with books to read! I have obviously told her to just get the detention over and done with but she is adamant and determined to avoid it.

vote Yabu for No detention given
and Yanbu for Detention given.

The good ones still are respected. Like I said earlier it should be mutual.

I'm very glad you're not a teacher.

If our human goal is to support the greatest possible happiness to the greatest possible number of people with any of our actions-which is essentially why there are school rules-then just make your kid take a fucking ruler because not having one creates a pain in the arse for others and it surprises me that someone would have the front to suggest a complete change across a whole school community which literally would not work, rather than supporting a tiny and useful change in their own child which would enable their success and keep them out of trouble.
ffs parents who fight their kids school rather than work with it, enough already.

My son has forgotten his iPad 3 times since last Sept. No detention, just a quick phone call from the reception asking could it be brought in. I wouldn't mind, but we do a check list every morning to make sure he's packed stuff he needs. Stuff like rulers, pens, can be borrowed from a friend or the teacher.

I've been arguing for everyone who is able but first and foremost parents to do everything they can to help and incentivise a child to find a way to take responsibility for their important items because it's a useful life skill that will aid them well in their future life and from that you took that I hate children and shouldn't teach? Makes me wonder what you want from a school to be honest, beyond free babysitting.

Is there any need for your snarky condescending attitude?

You're arguing a point I've already agreed with you on FFS. A lot of parents ARE doing everything you want them to do. I've said this. Several times.

You shouldn't teach because of your blatant lack of understanding of ND which is an increasing issue and your unwillingness to listen or understand.

What I want from school is a supportive place where my child can go to learn, and not be punished for tiny ridiculous things like forgetting rules. How schools used to be and have been for many, many years. If like the to be better funded. I don't need 'free babysitting' thanks very much.

You've really proved my point over and over again.

*rulers

@Chocolatebuttonns
You've made a few comments on teachers in schools - I completely agree that training on neurodiversity in schools is massively lacking. There’s been an absolute explosion in schools of children who may be ND. Teachers are struggling to manage because the expectations on them in schools via leadership is still the same. So for example if a teacher was being observed and they had a student who didn't have their pen but they didn't give them a detention, that teacher would be criticised. Yes, some schools are that bad!

You’re angry at the wrong people. Be angry at the government who haven’t provided enough money in the NHS and schools to train staff, support SEN, provide better resources. When I first trained, SEN was hardly mentioned. ADHD wasn’t recognised and any child with ASD was left to it or excluded. The only special schools that existed were for children who were diagnosed as having moderate learning difficulties which in essence meant that had an IQ of IQ of below 70. Children with physical difficulties just stayed in hospital or at home.
I see teachers on their knees on a daily basis. I am in a couple of teacher facebook groups where posters regularly talk of having their ‘tree’ that they want to drive into on their way to school because they are so anxious. They want to do their best for the students but a combination of not getting appropriate CPD, the pressure of OFSTED and SLT scrutinising them constantly, the threat of being put on support plans and then managed out of a job, aggressive parents and constant curriculum changes means that teaching is a career many current teachers would not choose if they had their time again. We certainly aren't in the job for the money, because even thats not great.
Clearly your personal experience gives you a different perspective, but honestly, the overwhelming majority of teacher want to do their best for all their students.

Any sensible parent would punish them if they gave out bragging that detention was a breeze and had no effect on them as was in the original example given.

I didn't even read the whole post past 'youre angry at the wrong people'

I'm not. I've already blamed government and the CEOs of academies. I'm not blaming the teachers for their lack of understanding. I can't expect them to train themselves. I've been very clear on who I'm blaming.

And this is why behaviour is getting worse and worse and worse, students laugh off any sanction the school can hand out and receive none at home. What message d you think that sends a child? Good luck with your handful.

Students laugh off sanctions when they’re handed out like lollipops. Punishments mean nothing when a child gets the same level of sanction for wearing the wrong colour socks or not having a ruler as they would swearing at a teacher or even threatening or hurting someone in school. It means nothing.
I honestly despair that in the last few decades schools have gone so downhill, and increase draconian measures to try to deal with it which just causes more anxiety in many pupils, ND or not, which in turn creates more problem behaviour, which leads to more harsh punishments (including for things that don’t affect education whatsoever), and so we go.
The number of children school refusing and having mental health crises is going up and up.

No they aren't.

I'm very glad you're not one either.

This is a hyperbolic assessment of the situation though. It is a ruler, a ruler, it is not going to be the case that everyone forgets it, nobody's suggesting school policies on rulers being altered, some of us are just wondering what's happened to common sense.

@Chocolatebuttonns you yourself said your DH does not pack the school bag and you find it difficult as you have SN. As I said there is an easy solution here.
But instead you want to make it a teacher problem so they supply a never ending supply of stationery.

I support teachers handing out detentions for this. Either it motivates the children to bring items, or for SN children it motivates parents to property support their children. The only exception I would want is for teachers to be sensitive where lack of money is the issue. But maybe a free pack of stationery items at the start of the year to all pupils on pupil premium?

I’ve excused my ds from all detentions. He has autism and adhd and IBS and was getting detentions (which distressed him) for minor things - I disagreed so told him he had my permission to walk out / not attend them he hasn’t been to a single one since despite many being issued . He knows they can’t physically stop him coming home / going to lunch and I’m not having my child punished for things beyond his control or ridiculous rules (eg being cold and shivery so needing to wear a coat in class as the teacher wouldn’t close a windows next to him , needing the toilet in class time , losing / forgetting things (he has adhd!)

Ok lol, irrelevant since I'm not the one making any kind of ridiculous comments on ND!

No he doesn't currently do that but he obviously does a myriad of other bloody things. Please don't try and solve strangers problems that you don't fully understand. I didn't ask for your advice. It's offensive at best.

How is it bragging, surely it is a comment, you may not like to hear it doesn't work but if we are not allowing freedom of expression in our own homes anymore we are bordering on Thought Police territory. Something that used to be part and parcel to a less rule based society was tolerance. You may not like it agree with some posters are stating but you have to accept people disagreeing with you in life.

I'm just responding to yours, you might want to look in the mirror. You were the one who decided to try to make it personal for some reason.

You say a lot are doing this stuff, I say a lot aren't and it's borne out in the comments here, if they were this wouldn't be such a huge problem.

I say if all parents did something about this problem instead of just making excuses and moaning to the school then things would change for the majority and then outcomes would be better for all. You only seem interested in making excuses which makes thing worse as then no one (and let's be honest most could) takes responsibility.

@Chocolatebuttonns Fine. You shared the issue first. But I trust you have it in hand so your DC always has their school bag correctly packed. In that case detentions for this are irrelevant to your family.

It's stupidity like this which is why schools are failing, and why disruption and disengagement is getting worse by the year. It causes stress and anxiety to the pupils affected, and what is the benefit? Bugger all! Just teachers throwing their weight around and trying to make themselves important.

It's about the smallest most irrelevant issue possible. Just borrow one from another pupil. It's what we always used to do at school. No drama. It's what happened in my professional chartered accountancy exams when a candidate would find they'd forgotten a ruler, protractor, pencil, or whatever - they'd quietly ask an invigilator who would quietly ask someone on a nearby table if they could lend it when they were finished with it. Then the invigilator would hand it back afterwards. No drama. If that can be done in a professional exam, it can be done in a classroom. Not even sure why a teacher would need to be involved in a normal lesson - surely one pupil would just ask someone sitting near them.

Ok apart from you advocating that we write them all off and not bother helping them because it's too hard for them and their parents so why won't the school just do it along with everything else and manage all their responsibilities? Why don't they just live at the school?

What happens when they leave school?

Now imagine teaching a class with 1/2 of the kids in there being told this by their parents.
He needs his phone in case I have to contact him.
He didn’t have time to eat lunch at lunch as he was playing football.
She needs to listen to music so she can concentrate.
He needs a fiddle toy which clicks.
She can’t bear the sound of clicking.
She needs to wear false tan/eyelashes/nails as she is low in confidence.
None of these on their own are outrageous but we teach kids in classes of 30…if we can reduce any additional faffing around we will!

If you don't want advice why are you whining on and on about your own situation?

Wow, again no wonder behaviour has fallen off a cliff in schools.

I'm explaining why perhaps people forget things despite their best efforts.

It's all gone over your head clearly.

I haven't asked for advice. I don't need it because generally, it's super obvious things people think ADHDers are too thick to have tried. As evidenced in this thread.